Gender-Inclusive Language

newick commented 3 years ago

Describe the feature/improvement As a french mainly used app we need to determine if we use (or not) inclusive language. For example contributeurshould be contributeur·ice

Target user Website visitors, extension User

Fill in the following areas if you have the time...

User stories As a French visitor (woman or feeling as one) I'd appreciate that everything is not only written as a male

felix-lambert commented 3 years ago

I guess most of the time we'll use english so it's more easy to be gender-inclusive. I agree that in the tech field we're not very good in creating an environment that could give the possibility for women to flourish (I experienced it during my tech studies. It's a total disaster... ). So I totally agree with your idea :)

christpet commented 3 years ago

Love this idea. We should definitely always default to inclusive language. This also applies to English in that we should always use "they/them" instead of "he/him" when talking about users, open source contributors, etc.

What other words in French need to be inclusified?

MaartenLMEM commented 3 years ago

On this path, My experience is that "Yes everytime" ot "No never" are both not good answers. For example

On job announce it's important an easy to put in the title (how much it changes discrimination and self discrimantion on hiring process is hard to say and I try to not discuss it ). Well there is no enough place sometime some we write "rédacteur web H/F".
On the website menu it would come to write "Contributeur.trice.s - Contribuer - Aide". => Beyond my opinion, for user experience I don't think it s a good idea.
In some sentences, like help menu : "Si vous êtes abonné.e à un.e ou plusieurs contributeur.trice.s, vous recevrez ses messages..."
In my writing practice, on LMEM, help articles, A propos, etc. I prefer write "abonnez vous aux contributeurs et contributrices que vous souhaitez" if contributeurs are people and there is gender question is supposed, or if I want to underline the human being part. Otherwhise I just say contributeur, consommateur, voleur, arnaqueur, etc., because they is no gender question or issue, it"s obvious.

newick commented 3 years ago

From now on we are supposed to used Contributeur. I have no issue with that but we lose half the population, same as utilisateur. If our goal is to make a better world, it helps to be inclusive in most of the ways so we need to find solution for issues on UI for example.

felix-lambert commented 3 years ago

What about putting for example: "Si vous êtes abonné(e) à un(e) ou plusieurs contributeur(e)s, vous recevrez ses messages..." ? Adding parenthesis is maybe less bothering IMHO

MaartenLMEM commented 3 years ago

We can of course use "contributrice". Français, Françaises, L'année ... se termine (...) Les Français ont fait beaucoup d'effort. (...) C'est notre devoir de citoyen. (...) Je pense à toutes celles et ceux qui ont (...) association de consommateurs -Les plus grands voleurs du XXXème siècles_ ( Nobody will say how president wasn't Inclusive, Wikipedia wasn't too or Que Choisir is discriminating)

Where I agree is that now every body is more an more using (English rooted) neutral words to comply with this. Sources was neutral. Contributeurs isn't. And some people won't like that change, even if the context makes it completly obvious that it s not about gender but about a role.

newick commented 3 years ago

And the translating team of the biggest CMS of the world use inclusive language https://fr.wordpress.org/2020/11/26/wordpress-5-6-des-changements-visant-a-ameliorer-linclusivite-de-linterface-dadministration/

felix-lambert commented 3 years ago

Je crois que je préfère la formulation combinée à la formulation basée sur l’usage du point médian

JalilArfaoui commented 3 years ago

I agree with @newick and @felix-lambert ...

But, another proposal for this specific case (Contributeurs in website main menu), as I understand that we want something simple for the menu :

Contributions

Thoughts ?

newick commented 3 years ago

I really like the order chosen by Anne-Sophie: https://blog.hello-bokeh.fr/2021/02/25/memo-de-lecriture-inclusive/

MaartenLMEM commented 3 years ago

Following this issue, here are some communication guidelines :

Repères : ce que font les autres qui ont été confronté à la question Wordpress : https://fr.wordpress.org/2020/11/26/wordpress-5-6-des-changements-visant-a-ameliorer-linclusivite-de-linterface-dadministration/ Remarque : Wordpress n’utilise pas l’écriture inclusive sur son propre site. Wikipedia https://www.numerama.com/politique/598073-interrogee-la-communaute-wikipedia-francaise-rejette-massivement-lecriture-inclusive.html

Dans nos communications

Privilégier formulation combinée, au moins une fois dans le texte ex: contributeurs et contributrices, éclaireurs et éclaireuses
Possible aussi de mettre parenthèse mais éviter si possible car peut être mal interprété par certains lecteurs. ex : les éclaireur(euses)
A priori éviter formulation basée sur l’usage du point médian, mais exception possible si le destinataire y est sensible (pour nous ce n’est pas un problème)

Sur le menu des pages Vos éclaireurs - Contribuer- Aide Vos éclaireurs - Devenir éclaireur - Aide

Dans les pages du site Privilégier formulation combinée ex: éclaireurs et éclaireuses

JalilArfaoui commented 3 years ago

antoinewolff commented 3 years ago

Fait avec le soutien financier de plus de 1360 contributrices et contributeurs.

JalilArfaoui commented 3 years ago

Ça me va aussi :-)

dis-moi / extension

Gender-Inclusive Language #788