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domgetter / NCoC

No Code of Conduct: A Code of Conduct for Adults in Open Source Software
The Unlicense
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The NCoC Readme contains multiple instances codifying expected conduct. These should be removed. #39

Open wilcornish opened 4 years ago

wilcornish commented 4 years ago

Once again, we are not going to tolerate our community being overridden by the mob. If this starts to happen, we will nuke, delete, lock, close, ban, and do whatever we have to do to put the fire out. These discussions drag on and on and on, and they don't make communities better.

Either clarify what the expected behaviour is, or remove this

Off topic chatter should be discouraged, but not censored. NCoC is targeting things like open source projects and public online communities based around specific topics.

This directly contradicts the above. If you are opposed to censorship then even conversation is "overtaken by a mob" must be allowed to continue unabated, as it is the preference of the majority.

We're all adults here after all!

LittleUmbrella commented 3 years ago

I was attracted to this repo because of its purity, but, like @wilcornish , I'm realizing that while the three "rules" or agreements, or whatever they are are consistent with not having a CoC, some of the answers in the FAQ are, in fact, spelling out codes of conduct, if not explicitly calling them such.

It seems to me that this repo is not no code of conduct, but a code of conduct of "staying on topic," which is fraught with the same pitfalls, inconsistencies, etc. as all the other codes of conduct out there. Shame. You almost had something here.

One could have predicted it: you're tired of people whining about others' behavior, and you're further tired of people putting up codes of conduct to try to protect these whiners or make them feel better. So to be rid of all of this, you think, "ah, no code of conduct." But that's a code of conduct! Trying to be rid of the whining and babying by to some extend banning it. I sympathize, and it feels good, but ultimately I also don't like it. I think I may create a true NCoC, maybe call it Truly No Code of Conduct. Or, you could champion that here, and stop false advertising.

stanio commented 3 years ago

Having a "true" No Code of Conduct doesn't make sense in my opinion. If a project really wants to have no CoC – it wouldn't include such. As far as I understand the No Code of Conduct is named as such as most other CoCs out there specify too many details no pertaining to project development. So I like NCoC clarifies the expected CoC is strictly related to a project's development, which actually may vary across projects.

LittleUmbrella commented 3 years ago

The way I see it, not having a code of conduct may be due to unawareness (word?), ignorance, laziness, neglect, etc., and if not, it's likely to be perceived that way. Having a true no code of conduct is, instead, a positive statement that there is no code of conduct. It also encourages others to proclaim no code of conduct--that the internet should be a free speech zone.

Again, if you want everyone to only discuss the project, then call it a No Off-topic Code of Conduct, or some such. The intent of the No Code of Conduct here is confusing, as @wilcornish has pointed out. At once, they say they will not censor, but also say they will

nuke, delete, lock, close, ban, and do whatever we have to do to put the fire out

So the line is very blurry. There won't be any censorship, unless, one presumes, the off-topic conversation goes "too long," and then it will be. I call this a lenient No Off-topic Code of Conduct.

BenMcLean commented 3 years ago

There's expected conduct, but this expectation isn't codified. So there's no code of conduct, just informal expectations of reasonableness.

BenMcLean commented 3 years ago

The point being made here isn't that we don't expect certain conduct, because people always have certain expectations, but that we do not believe it necessary to have a formal Code of Conduct for open source projects.