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Documentation for ASP.NET Core
https://docs.microsoft.com/aspnet/core
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Have a section in docs referencing video tutorials/presentations #17164

Open mkArtakMSFT opened 4 years ago

mkArtakMSFT commented 4 years ago

The idea here is to have a section in docs, which will be a hub for video content on ASP.NET Core related topics. There should be a way to identity/separate Microsoft owned as well as community-owned videos. To clarify, this is not about hosting the videos in the docs page, rather just being a catalog of such videos.

Why is this important?

People prefer to learn differently. Some prefer written content like books, articles and others prefer video tutorials. Some people, however, who are in the first group, still prefer to have a way to watch some content on-demand.

guardrex commented 4 years ago

Some prefer written content like books, articles and others prefer video tutorials.

As a former educator, I wholeheartedly agree. :heart: Research indicates that students have preferred learning styles and it's best to accommodate those styles in course content generation.

However, video has some challenges ...

mkArtakMSFT commented 4 years ago

Thanks for the feedback, @guardrex. Content becoming stale is manageable. We can version these materials on our own. So that some videos will show up through v2.1 docs, some through v3.2 etc. As for the video becoming unavailable, somebody will notice that and file an issue, and we can be reactive here, it's ok.

So yes, that comment can be applied to video content too.

mkArtakMSFT commented 4 years ago

I can see the updated docs landing page now and it does have the new ASP.NET Core video tutorials section, which is a link to a https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLdo4fOcmZ0oW8nviYduHq7bmKode-p8Wy channel. This is a great first step. I'm wondering what will it take to take this to the next level and do what I've asked for above? Do I need to start an email thread with "higher-powers" ?

Rick-Anderson commented 4 years ago

Video tutorials need to be curiated, typically by the engineering team. Obviously video's delivered by the engineering team don't need to be curated. If you find a video that should be added, create an issue with the link and we'll get it added within 2 business days. We don't have the resources to search for videos and curate them.

In a poll of 20 ESL customers, with all 20 having strong english skills, all 20 said they found our English docs very useful but videos totally useless.

mkArtakMSFT commented 4 years ago

Thanks @Rick-Anderson. That's actually very interesting data you have there. What does ESL stand for?

guardrex commented 4 years ago

English as a Second Language

mkArtakMSFT commented 4 years ago

And which videos were they referring to?

Rick-Anderson commented 4 years ago

Professionally done videos, including those by @shanselman. The audio moves too fast. With english text, there is no ambiguity, no accents, and they can read at their own rate. They were emphatic that video didn't work for them, no matter how well done. They were all MVP's attending a MVP conference in Seattle.

cc @JasonCard

mkArtakMSFT commented 4 years ago

Let's pause on this. I can't ignore that data. Let me follow up on this offline. I'm wondering whether MVPs are not the right audience for this, given they're already experts. Anyway, let's pause on this for now till I get back.

Thanks @Rick-Anderson

Rick-Anderson commented 4 years ago

@JasonCard do you have any data non-english speakers and video?

MVPs are not the right audience for this, given they're already experts.

But these MVPs has excellent English skills, far better than most customers reading doc's in their native language. My guess is the odds are worse for non-English speakers, more like 100/100 don't like video.

@mkArtakMSFT I think non-English is about 25%, so even if they get no value, it's worth listing videos when we have them.

JasonCard commented 4 years ago

hi @Rick-Anderson I'm a little lost in this thread, but may I ask which videos we're discussing about and what kind of data are you looking for? PV or CSAT on localized videos?

Rick-Anderson commented 4 years ago

I took a survey of 20 ESL Microsoft MVPs and everyone of them said videos in English are worthless. I'm guessing you don't have any data on how non-English speakers view videos done in English.

JasonCard commented 4 years ago

I see. I don't think we have any data on that, but we do localize some videos in captions only. For example, videos in Microsoft Learn. I wonder if the videos would work for some non-English speakers if audio is English, but the captions are localized?

Rick-Anderson commented 1 year ago

@mkArtakMSFT another problem is video's get stale very quickly. When we find a good video, we do at it to the

Additional Resources

Let me know if you'd like to keep this open. cc @tdykstra

Rick-Anderson commented 1 year ago

@mkArtakMSFT I might have hijacked this thread with ESL (not english speakers) don't like video. Many of our customers are English speaking and they do like videos. Those that don't like videos just skip the video link.