reference style

[katrin-berkenbusch]

Is there a reason our reference style is so different from the one used for MPI reports? For example, standard publications have an additional comma, and a comma instead of a colon for the publication source: "Eno, N.; MacDonald, D.; Kinnear, J.; Amos, S.; Chapman, C.; Clark, R.; Bunker, F. S. P.; Munro, C. (2001). Effects of crustacean traps on benthic fauna. ICES Journal of Marine Science, 58, 11–20."

Book citations have the number of pages before the publisher details (ideally, they are at the end): "Bailey, A.; Sorensen, J. (1962). Subantarctic Campbell Island. 305 p. Denver Museum of Natural History, United States."

Chapters and similar publications have the page numbers in parentheses before the publisher or conference details; the "In" should have a colon: G.F. van Tets (1980). The Campbell Island shag. In Preliminary reports of the Campbell Island expedition 1975–76. Reserves series no. 7 (pp. 117–119). Department of Lands and Survey, Wellington.

[katrin-berkenbusch]

And websites need to have a full stop at the end.

[wilkinnikk]

Hi Katrin, Just wondering if this is still an issue or has it been resolved over the past year?

[katrin-berkenbusch]

Let me check.

[katrin-berkenbusch]

I am having problems finding a recent Dragonfly report. Do you have one?

[finlay]

I can't think of one recently, they have all been MPI and other reports.

[katrin-berkenbusch]

Caleb’s DeepSpeech report was a Dragonfly one, but it has disappeared. ;-)

On 27/06/2019, at 4:40 PM, Finlay Thompson notifications@github.com wrote:

I can't think of one recently, they have all been MPI and other reports.

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[finlay]

Oh, it has moved to Te Hiku Media's new Gorbachev instance

[katrin-berkenbusch]

That’s what I thought.

On 27/06/2019, at 5:21 PM, Finlay Thompson notifications@github.com wrote:

Oh, it has moved to Te Hiku Media's new Gorbachev instance

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[finlay]

waha-tuhi-project-report.pdf

[katrin-berkenbusch]

Thanks for that @finlay. Looks like some of the internal report issues for references are still relevant.

[wilkinnikk]

@katrin-berkenbusch does this look ok now for websites?

report.pdf

[wilkinnikk]

@katrin-berkenbusch, is it alright that the in has now been italicised as well? this aligns with the mpi documents. Would you also be able to clarify how "Eno, N.; MacDonald, D.; Kinnear, J.; Amos, S.; Chapman, C.; Clark, R.; Bunker, F. S. P.; Munro, C. (2001). Effects of crustacean traps on benthic fauna. ICES Journal of Marine Science, 58, 11–20." is meant to look? Am a little confused about what is wrong with it.

[katrin-berkenbusch]

Yes, getting there.

Please include colon for “In”, as in: “In: IUCN 2011” and comma at the end: "Gland, Switzerland, IUCN.”.

Gales, N. (2008). Phocarctos hookeri. In IUCN 2011. IUCN red list of threatened species. Retrieved from hĴp://www.iucnredlist.org, 5 November 2011. Gland, Switzerland: IUCN.

Thanks, Katrin

On 28/06/2019, at 11:14 AM, Nikki notifications@github.com wrote:

@katrin-berkenbusch does this look ok now for websites?

report.pdf

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[katrin-berkenbusch]

Hello again,

I don’t think the “in” should be italicised.

For a journal reference, I think the format should be like this:

Eno, N.; MacDonald, D.; Kinnear, J.; Amos, S.; Chapman, C.; Clark, R.; Bunker, F. S. P.; Munro, C. (2001). Effects of crustacean traps on benthic fauna. ICES Journal of Marine Science 58: 11–20.

That is, no comma between the journal title and the volume number, and colon between the volume number and the page numbers.

On 28/06/2019, at 11:31 AM, Nikki notifications@github.com wrote:

Would you also be able to clarify how "Eno, N.; MacDonald, D.; Kinnear, J.; Amos, S.; Chapman, C.; Clark, R.; Bunker, F. S. P.; Munro, C. (2001). Effects of crustacean traps on benthic fauna. ICES Journal of Marine Science, 58, 11–20." is meant to look?

[edwardabraham]

Sorry, for arriving late to this. But the reason that the styles are different is that the MPI style is ad-hoc. Because of this it is annoying to maintain, and I would prefer to use a standard citation style where we can. For the dragonfly reports we are using an APA style. The idea was to stick with that. We rely on the biblatex-apa package (https://ctan.org/pkg/biblatex-apa , with examples here http://mirror.aut.ac.nz/CTAN/macros/latex/contrib/biblatex-contrib/biblatex-apa/biblatex-apa-test.pdf ).

Obviously, where need be we can patch it (as we have been doing). But in general, I think it is better to stick with a standard where we can. The more we diverge from it, the more weird cases that we have to look after. Looking at your issues, the APA style does not have fullstops after websites (https://blog.apastyle.org/apastyle/website/ and see this issue https://github.com/plk/biblatex-apa/issues/62), and in the APA style the 'In' is not in italics, and has no colon after it (https://blog.apastyle.org/apastyle/2013/09/how-to-cite-an-anthology-or-collected-works.html).

[katrin-berkenbusch]

Yes, sounds good to stick to a standard format (even though it’s annoying). I guess APA is the best one to use?

On 28/06/2019, at 12:02 PM, Edward Abraham notifications@github.com wrote:

Sorry, for arriving late to this. But the reason that the styles are different is that the MPI style is ad-hoc. Because of this it is annoying to maintain, and I would prefer to use a standard citation style where we can. For the dragonfly reports we are using an APA style. The idea was to stick with that. We rely on the biblatex-apa package (https://ctan.org/pkg/biblatex-apa , with examples here http://mirror.aut.ac.nz/CTAN/macros/latex/contrib/biblatex-contrib/biblatex-apa/biblatex-apa-test.pdf ).

Obviously, where need be we can patch it (as we have been doing). But in general, I think it is better to stick with a standard where we can. The more we diverge from it, the more weird cases that we have to look after. Looking at your issues, the APA style does not have fullstops after websites (https://blog.apastyle.org/apastyle/website/ and see this issue plk/biblatex-apa#62), and in the APA style the 'In' is not in italics, and has no colon after it (https://blog.apastyle.org/apastyle/2013/09/how-to-cite-an-anthology-or-collected-works.html).

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[edwardabraham]

Of course, we did not resist the temptation to tweak, and we can get odd things from having one bib file being used for both APA and MPI styles. Anyways, I hope this finally answers the first question of your issue!!

Is there a reason our reference style is so different from the one used for MPI reports?

[katrin-berkenbusch]

Yes, I think the book citations with page numbers look a bit odd with the page number in the middle.:

Bailey, A.; Sorensen, J. (1962). Subantarctic Campbell Island. 305 p. Denver Museum of Natural History, United States.

I am personally a fan of as little punctuation as possible, but happy to go with a standard format if that’s the easiest way forward.

On 28/06/2019, at 12:06 PM, Edward Abraham notifications@github.com wrote:

Of course, we did not resist the temptation to tweak, and we can get odd things from having one bib file being used for both APA and MPI styles. Anyways, I hope this finally answers the first question of your issue!!

Is there a reason our reference style is so different from the one used for MPI reports?

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[edwardabraham]

Will leave it to you, just letting you know the history (we already made the big move to semi-colons in author lists, which is not standard APA!), and yes they do look odd. I haven't found the bit in the APA style where they talk about page numbers — most examples seem to leave them out.

[katrin-berkenbusch]

I think there’s a real advantage in using a standard format…although why did we change to semi-colons? Because we have a comma separating the family name and initials?

On 28/06/2019, at 12:16 PM, Edward Abraham notifications@github.com wrote:

Will leave it to you, just letting you know the history (we already made the big move to semi-colons in author lists, which is not standard APA!), and yes they do look odd. I haven't found the bit in the APA style where they talk about page numbers — most examples seem to leave them out.

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[edwardabraham]

Not sure why! The APA style uses lots of commas.

[wilkinnikk]

After above discussion - have rolled back previous two changes. I have however, removed the parentheses from around the addendum. addendum can be used instead of note in book citations to place the pages at the end of the reference.

[finlay]

Bumped version to 1.17