Open nelsonic opened 5 years ago
The above graphs are for Electricity usage. If we look at Total Primary Energy Supply (TPES), the story is even more skewed toward hydrocarbons!
https://www.iea.org/publications/freepublications/publication/Energy_Policies_of_IEA_Countries_Portugal_2016_Review.pdf
Portugal relative to other IEA member countries in 2014.
Also relevant: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pumped-storage_hydroelectricity (energy storage capacity is not expanding at the rate of renewable supply ...)
Consider adding ERoEI calculation to explain solar panels from a environmental perspective: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_returned_on_energy_invested
Companies to request solar panel + installation quotes from:
Through research, we note that the SunPower® X-Series Residential Solar appear to be the best panels. see: https://us.sunpower.com/sites/sunpower/files/sunpower-x-series-residential-solar-panels-x21-335-blk-x21-345-datasheet-504828-revg.pdf
£5,995 for 12 panels (4kW) is definitely not "cheap"! But if our objective is to maximise the amount of energy we can generate from the available space, then we should only be considering panels that have this level of efficient conversion.
In addition to roughly 30 PV solar panels, we have 5 Solar Water Heating Panels planned. We need to make the difference clear to people ... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_water_heating
Sketchup Layout of Solar Panels:
Pink = windows Green = heat pump solar panels
@iteles we need to ask the suppliers of our solar panels what the price of the higher output panels are.
For reference, the SunPower X1 335W panels I linked to above (£5,995 for 12 panels) cost €620 each from Portuguese importer/installer "FF Solar" see: http://www.ffsolar.com/index.php?lang=PT&page=produtos&content=model&field=1&category=1&family=3
http://www.ffsolar.com/products/FF_lista_PVP.pdf
I think that sadly, the SunPower X1 are cost-prohibitive considering they have only 10% more output than a much more affordable 300W panel which costs around €160 ...
My original estimate in the April 2017 Biz Plan was €40k for panels and storage. It's looking like with the recent price reductions that we might be able to get our complete solar system for €20k (with installation!) so that would be awesome! (the first underspend on the project!) 😮
@iteles I exported the Roof Dimensions with Windows and Suggested Solar Panel positioning as PDF: braga-telhado-janelas-e-paineis-solares.pdf
This should be easier for Carlos (Solar Panel Engineer) to view. 🔍 (Please reply to his email with this as an attachment, thanks!) 📎
We met with solar panel providers at home
this morning and discussed the positioning of the solar panels and required wiring.
The salient points from this meeting were:
🤦♀️ I had already started writing the above and the issue only updated with your latest comments when I submitted it @nelsonic
That'll teach me for getting distracted with emailing people part-way through a comment!
I had already emailed them both the drawing and the request for the updated quote 👍
The cost of Photovoltaic solar has decreased by 18% in the last year ... 😮 https://about.bnef.com/blog/battery-powers-latest-plunge-costs-threatens-coal-gas/
Chased today for the SCOP (to know whether we will need to by law have solar panels for the heat pumps specifically) and also for the spec of the solar panels for the heat pumps.
Have been chasing constantly but no joy.
In the meantime, now that we have a date for the roof #35, I've emailed the photovoltaics guys to see what we need to decide/put in place ahead of this getting done.
The latest proposals/costs for the solar panels include something interesting: solar panels on three portions of the roof. I have emailed them to query this.
All quotes are not for 315W panels.
They also include batteries for now - see note in https://github.com/ideaq/home/issues/25#issuecomment-495939542 around costs for the decision to be made.
If only 2 sides on the roof:
@nelsonic These guys seem extremely knowledgeable and they're up the road if anything goes wrong. Do you think we should get a quote from the Póvoa de Lanhoso guys too or are you happy with these?
@iteles as you say, the supplier that has their HQ nearer to @home is preferable. I don't think it would hurt to get a quote from the Povoa people to determine if they are competitive ... but from reading their marketing material last time we were there, their panels were more expensive ...
@nelsonic DAPE have now confirmed it will take 3 weeks to source all the materials needed so we should confirm with them this coming week (3-Jun-2019).
The solar panels on 3 portions of the roof is confirmed (they confirmed this was possible: "colocação de 8 módulos a melhor situação será dividir estes módulos pelos módulos das outras duas águas de modo a termos 2 strings com tensão equivalente").
The only decision left is whether or not to go for batteries. All costs and differences are here: https://github.com/ideaq/home/issues/25#issuecomment-495939542
Confirmed we will have only photovoltaics as the solar panels for the heat pumps would mean that any energy produced from these panels after the water was hot would just be wasted. With photovoltaics, we can store this extra energy and it won't go to waste.
The technician from DAPE will be there at 09h00 tomorrow morning (Wednesday 3-Jul-2019) to discuss anything that needs to be done with the roofers.
There was a delay in the delivery of the batteries, which should arrive at the end of next week.
Installation of everything has been booked in starting on 22nd July 2019.
We are still waiting for the batteries and inverter to be installed before we can use the panels ... ⏳
But the 32 panels have already been installed on the roof:
I spoke to the solar panel company yesterday and they are expecting the battery and inverters this week (but they said that last week so I'm not holding my breath).
Batteries and inverters have now been dispatched from Germany and are expected 11-Sep-2019. Installation this week or next at the latest.
@iteles means we need Bruno to "inject" the solar power into the mains so that we can test it. 😉
Another delay. Email from the transporter (in German, thank you Google Translate): I can assure you 100% that the goods were picked up on 04.09.2019 and on the way to Portugal. Unfortunately, the shipment did not arrive punctually and therefore missed the departure on Thursday (05.09.2019) to PT. Therefore, the goods were loaded with the next departure and is now on the way to PT. We very much regret the incident. Delivery 18.09.2019.
These are now installed however, when the solar panels were put on the roof, the guttering #67 was bent, so we discovered this week that ALL the water was collecting in the South corner of the house and the weight of the water was almost about to pull the guttering off the roof.
It was also causing ALL of the water coming off the roof to rush down and into the garage, causing a small flood across the whole basement level.
The flooding issue has now been sorting by digging a path for this water towards the garden whilst we wait for a more permanent solution but the gutters will need to be fixed.
I have spoken to Carlos from DAPE (solar panels) and we'll see whether the solution will be to get Ze Manuel/Rafael out to fix them or whether DAPE will sort it out.
The solar system will also be connected to the electricity system this week.
This has now been completely installed, both on the roof and hooked up to the electrical circuit (completely in early November 2019). It should already be working, producing electricity that can be used in the house.
There are two steps missing here:
We got our latest electricity bill which hadn’t changed and called them.
All the equipment is hooked up but apparently they haven’t started it yet because they require WiFi to ensure that the flow of energy is correct and everything working properly, particularly before our power is increased.
We agreed they would start everything up with a WiFi hotspot (obviously) and will let me know which day this will happen.
@iteles should we place the order with the ISP today so that we can get this ball moving? The amount we are paying each month to EDP to run our dehumidifier almost outweighs the cost of broadband! And we are going to need a lot of electricity very soon to heat water which was the whole point of getting the solar panels ...
The conclusion of our research last year is still the same: MEO Fibra 1GB €38,99/mês (the fastest)
https://www.meo.pt/pacotes/fibra/outros-pacotes
Can I place the order today?
The question above was moved to #107.
The plan is for the solar panel folks to come today (20-Jan-2020) and get them up and running using a hotspot.
I'm here waiting for the Solar Panel people to arrive. ⏳ Hot spot indeed. Who is providing it? ❓ (as much as I want to donate my data to use the solar panels, I'm 100% certain the software will require an update as soon as it connects to the net...) 🙄
Now that the internet has been hooked up, I've called the solar panel folks to come back and finalise the installation of the application. This is provisionally expected to be on Monday/Tuesday 27/28-Jan-2020.
Screenshot of Solax UI showing some lovely solar rays powering @home ☀️
We received confirmation on 3-Feb-2020, after some testing on our part, that there is a bug with the 'medidor' software so it is not measuring and therefore not dispensing the correct amount of energy to meet the (currently low) household needs.
Following up on this next week.
Indeed the solar output measurement software has a bug in it. Not very reassuring ... 🙄
@nelsonic The solar panel folks will be here this afternoon sometime after 15h00 to attempt to fix the issues.
@iteles thanks for following up. 👍 📆
Our solar panels have been working properly since late March 👍
We're now around the height of Summer:
(Those minimums are a joke, I wish it cooled down overnight but at 23h00 it's still 30 degrees out!)
And our outputs are looking pretty good!
Just after 11am:
And peak production around midday:
We have now agree to the new contract from EDP, so I am pulling together the information required by DAPE for them to finalize their configuration:
This info has now been sent and they are putting in the request for the registration of the solar power system with EDP (as is mandated by law). I have warned them that the new potência contratada #70 won't be in force until early September but they have said they want to put the request in now as it actually takes quite a long time.
@nelsonic They have also said that we need to have the 'contador' hooked up by law, which requires a SIM card with data capabilities to be installed in the GSM modem that is already installed downstairs. Carlos mentioned they could provide this for €5 pcm but that most people prefer to get it through their existing providers as they get them at €2 or €2.50 pcm.
This is the first I remember hearing of this so I have requested the spec for the equipment: Contador Itron ACE6000.pdf Modem GSM ITRON.pdf
I suspect that this equipment is purely for the sale of electricity to EDP. If so, we will be spending more money on the data card every month than we'd get back in sales at this stage. So I've asked the question on whether it's necessary and if so, how much data is required.
2 years later and Google Earth still thinks we have the old roof ... 🤷♂️
Need to dig out a drone photo. 📷
Final tasks as of Dec-2019
Context
home
is based in a city centre with good infrastructure. 🌇 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Braga We have access to the National Grid which provides a reliable/consistent supply. We don't need to tie up capital on Solar Panels and storage (batteries) up-front because there is no shortage of electricity in the Portugal - many other countries have regular/prolonged power cuts ... e.g Eskom's "planned blackouts" in South Africa: 🌍🔌🚫😕 https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-africa-31126033/south-africa-faces-power-crisis-and-blackoutsPortugal Renewable Energy Facts 🌬
Investment in renewable energy, specifically wind has been relentless! In the 10 years from 2003 to 2013 wind generation capacity grew from 0.3GW to 4.73GW; 16x!![portugal-investment-renewable-energy-2000-2016](https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/194400/47279052-d98d7480-d5c5-11e8-9840-49baf3c54ca2.png)
But the generation capacity does not even tell the "full story", the (annual) electricity generated by wind is even more impressive: from 0.48TWh to 12,19TWh; 25x!!
We will discuss the "grey area" (fossil fuels) below, these graphs are to contextualise the headlines. The thicker grey line indicating consumption is significant; it shows the point (in 2015) when Portugal became a Net Exporter of Electricity. For all the stats/metrics and ratios of consumption, export and efficiency, see: https://tradingeconomics.com/portugal/energy-imports-net-percent-of-energy-use-wb-data.html
Headlines?
There is no shortage of headlines stating that Portugal generated over 100% of energy demand from renewables. e.g: Renewable energy generated 104% of Portugal's electricity consumption in March https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/portugal-renewable-energy-generated-electricity-consumption-march-greenhouse-gas-environment-a8289656.html
But this headline is deeply misleading. (bordering on "fake news"...)
Actual Energy Production:
The annual breakdown of energy production is far less than 100%: https://www.apren.pt/contents/publicationsreportcarditems/12-renewable-electricity-in-portugal.pdf![energy-breakdown-portugal-2017](https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/194400/47278615-53bbfa00-d5c2-11e8-9ddf-cb539fcb8138.png)
Current Data
The latest energy consumption stats are available online: https://www.ren.pt/en-GB for September 2018 only 33.8% of energy consumed was from renewable sources:![ren-production-breakdown-sept-2018](https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/194400/47279562-df855480-d5c9-11e8-955b-52340b88e1f6.png)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renewable_energy_in_Portugal![image](https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/194400/47278715-00967700-d5c3-11e8-9367-41db73cbbf89.png)
Solar?
Solar Panels have always been high on our list of features that are (very) "nice to have". ☀️🔋 We budgeted for Solar in our original plan: /dwyl/phase-two/braga#financials And if we can get a good quote (including installation) from reputable supplier, we will go for it!
Having Solar is not a "blocker" to opening the house so have not been a focus; We don't need to be "energy independent" or spend €40k on panels, inverters and batteries for "MVP".
We have "planned ahead" when doing the electrical re-wiring of the house and the cables are all in place to get the solar energy from the roof to the basement next to the mains consumer unit (where inverters, charge controller and batteries will "live"). When the time comes to install the panels and supporting equipment, we expect minimal "disruption" to the house for scaffolding on the north wall and installation should be complete within a couple of weeks.
Todo
Solar Panel Suppliers (in Portugal) ☀️ 🇵🇹
Our research indicates that Damia Solar are the best value suppliers in PT: https://www.damiasolar.com/produtos/kit_energia_solar/kit-de-autoconsumo-solar-4000w-de-injec-o-zero_da1002_112![image](https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/194400/39959886-7f3ba1a8-5610-11e8-8b10-5b8b3be81031.png)
Most of the kits available include OPZS Batteries https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opzs this is a Lead Acid battery generally composed of diluted sulfuric acid https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sulfuric_acid ... I think we will give it a miss.
Is Solar Worth It?
On purely economic terms, solar energy is a poor use of capital. 💸 The best-case scenario "pay back period" for an investment in panels is 8 years. The reality is more like 12 years without government incentives. Even if we assume near-perfect panel positioning we can only expect around 5 hours of sunlight (on average) per day.
Average Sunshine Per Day
Thankfully there is decent historical data freely available online for sunshine hours:
https://www.worldweatheronline.com/braga-weather-averages/braga/pt.aspx![image](https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/194400/47264560-3da23100-d511-11e8-8a8b-c049062b1c46.png)
The lowest sunshine recorded (in the available data) is 147 hours (averaged over Jan - March)![image](https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/194400/47264612-1e57d380-d512-11e8-895d-f58b29083351.png)
Drilling down into the data we see that the lowest sunshine was January 2016 with 94.5h.![image](https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/194400/47264704-ae4a4d00-d513-11e8-995f-e4c95c3e92d5.png)
We need to account for this and plan to source our energy from the National Grid in January each year.
There are two reasons for this dip: seasonal variation in angle of incidence of solar rays and fewer days in the denominator. i.e. February typically has 28 days.
A reality check on renewables - David MacKay
This TED-Ed talk gives a good overview of the arithmetic for energy generation:
Relevant Reading
A book I have found particularly useful in understanding solar is: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Solar-Electricity-Handbook-Installing-Photovoltaic/dp/1907670688![image](https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/194400/47264773-c1115180-d514-11e8-93e2-93f3fe75dc6c.png)
If you don't have the time to read a 186 page book, there are a few good sites you can look at:
Related Background Reading and General Knowledge
#helpwanted
If anyone has experience of installing domestic solar panels and has any advice/wisdom to share, please comment below!