nelsonic
commented
5 years ago Requested advice/help on HN: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19061374 (not expecting anyone to reply ... but on the off-chance ...)
Open nelsonic opened 5 years ago
nelsonic
commented
5 years ago Requested advice/help on HN: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19061374 (not expecting anyone to reply ... but on the off-chance ...)
nelsonic
commented
5 years ago The Peopoly Moai https://peopoly.net/products/moai looks sick! https://youtu.be/Srl96IoeWJs (super high resolution (Laser SLA)! reasonably affordable resin and fast!) Tom's review: https://www.tomsguide.com/us/peopoly-moai-3d-printer,review-5338.html suggests that it's not for "beginners"
nelsonic
commented
5 years ago The "ASK HN" Question did not get a lot of attention. (I suspect because I asked it on a Friday Night!1)
But the comment it did get was insightful:
Don't buy a high end (i.e. "expensive") 3D printer because people will be "afraid" to use it!
Thankfully, we have already Backed/Ordered a pair of Cubibot (easy to use) 3D printers on Kickstarter so people who are
newto 3D printing or just want to print a low-res replacement "settlement" for the Catan board (because Scott, the family monster Labrador eat it!) can do so easily on the Cubibot.
I feel quite tempted by the Moai (Laser SLA) shared above. The quality is sick, it uses generic or specific ("strong") resin and there's a good online forum: https://peopoly.net/pages/support
https://youtu.be/NxVY28C3Cg8
1We need to scrape HN (or find a "dump" of it) to determine what the best day to post is when people will read, up-vote and respond to questions.
nelsonic
commented
5 years ago The "Monoprice" the HN commenter refers to is:
Pro: https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=15711
Mini: https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=15365
The reason I'm not ordering a Monoprice a comment on this video: https://youtu.be/rErgaoGGldY
It might be PEBKAC but I get the feeling that in order to make the printer cheap,
they are compromising on quality ... I don't have time for that.
Need to invest up-front to not waste my time with poor quality.
achingbrain
commented
5 years ago I have a Mk3 Prusa i3 PLA printer and the Peopoly Moai SLA printer you mention above. Before that I had a LittleRP but the guy who makes them seems to have thrown in the towel.
I chose the Prusa partly because it has great reviews but also because it has loads of great features that other printers have copied and I think it's good to reward people for innovation. I bought some cheap filament once the bundled reel ran out which was find but took a bit more dialling in than the Prusa produced stuff and also had a slightly lower melting point so was a little susceptible to elephant foot.
Since then I've bought their own-brand Prusament filament which the Prusa version of Slic3r has presets for and is priced pretty competitively with generic stuff from Amazon, though I found that 3 reels is the max you can order before the shipping cost gets too much.
The Moai like most resin printers is something you should get into forewarned with the knowledge that you're going to spend a very long time experimenting with calibration, settings, model supports, resins and vats etc. You're also going to need either sympathetic/understanding housemates/significant others or better yet a garage or outbuilding to store the printer in as the resin smells bad. Like, really bad. It also gets everywhere so you'll need to put matts down around it, not have it anywhere near carpet and to keep a box of nitrile rubber gloves handy (not latex as it's dissolved by the resin). In short there will be a lot of faff, a lot of "test prints" and not much time producing actual viable prints - anything less than a Form2 is very much at the hobbyist end of the spectrum.
Peopoly have their own support/gcode generation software called Asura which is based on Cura - it has distortion correction for the laser which is really important for larger prints but at the moment it's Windows only. A Mac version has been promised for the start of this year but no sign of it as of yet.
For durability, once the resin has cured it tends to be quite brittle so it's not really suitable for making parts that need to stand up to any sort of stress - these types of printers are more popular with dentists, model and jewellery makers who would then cast the pieces they make. If you really want to make durable components, then the Prusa with PETG filament would be better as it makes much stronger bonds.
In terms of being environmentally friendly, resin printers are most definitely not. PLA filament is biodegradable (in that it degrades under UV light, something to bear in mind if designing things to be used outdoors) but PETG generally isn't (you can get some PETG filament with additives that make it biodegradable but it's expensive and who knows what it'll do to the durability).
I'd certainly recommend the Prusa, and the Moai too as long as you're not put off by the above - for your budget you can afford both!
Wow this is long, sorry for the brain-dump.
nelsonic
commented
5 years ago @achingbrain that’s quite a brain-dump! I can see why it’s aching... 😉 I feel like I’ve gained a glimpse into your years of research, “test prints” and accumulated knowledge.
Thanks for the heads-up on the resin smell ... fumes? 🤔 We have a dedicated corner for the 3D printers in the garage/workshop. Sounds like we might need to store it outside to avoid the smell.
I/we have a lot to learn. Thank you! ❤️
achingbrain
commented
5 years ago I’m not an expert by any means but I have made a lot of mistakes - happy to share and help out wherever possible 😀
nelsonic
commented
5 years ago @achingbrain the fact that you've made a lot of mistakes makes you considerably more experienced than us, so we really appreciated your advice.
We share the viewpoint that "it's good to reward people for innovation" and ❤️ the fact that @josefprusa has open sourced everything https://github.com/prusa3d and is still a sustainable business/company! https://www.prusaprinters.org/prusa-i3/
This of course thanks to the many other pioneers who open-sourced their work before. e.g: https://reprap.org/wiki/RepRap
Makers Muse has a really good (balanced) review of the Original Prusa i3 MK3:
https://youtu.be/ujpMlqvgwdI
The "lattice torture test" doesn't look great ...
The edges are rough:
https://youtu.be/ujpMlqvgwdI?t=367
Angus (Makers Muse) that the MK3 is still the best (value-for-money/affordable) FDM. And the removable/flexible print surface is a major win for product prototyping.
There are many (much) cheaper i3 clones available from China https://www.aliexpress.com/af/i3-3d-printer.html?SearchText=i3+3d+printer (to be expected given that Prusa Open Sourced all the blueprints...)
But from researching, the quality appears to be "hit and miss" (tending towards miss. frustration & wasted time/money) e.g:
€175.32 with free shipping is incredibly tempting. I don't know if the reviews on "banggood" are reliable ... Could be worth a gamble.
Some people even have good results with i3 Clones: https://all3dp.com/1/best-prusa-i3-kit-clone-mk2-reprap-3d-printer-kit/ It's nuts how many clones there are from China! https://www.aliexpress.com/af/anet-a8.html
The Anycubic i3 Mega at $242 with free shipping is _tempting:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/ANYCUBIC-3D-Printer-I3-Mega-Impresora-3D-Kit-Full-Metal-Frame-Large-Printing-Plus-Size-Touch/32948698124.html
https://youtu.be/N6Y2mdpuYIU
Meanwhile, I may have gone done a bit of a YouTube rabbit hole ... 😮
I'm definitely going to be making a Chess Set https://www.thingiverse.com/tag:chess ♟️ once I've finished the IoT prototyping ...
Given what Alex noted above about the SLA UV resin smelling bad,
I went searching for "safety" and found this good video:
https://youtu.be/7kHcsTG9QsM
To cut a long story short, I feel that an SLA (resin) printer is not going to be beginner friendly. i.e: for people who have never printed before, it's not a good idea. Once I get good at using an FDM printer, I will consider "upgrading" to an SLA. (meanwhile the prices will come down or speeds improve etc.)
nelsonic
commented
5 years ago 
The reason this 3D printer is tempting is because it has a larger build volume 400mm 400mm 450 mm and heated bed which according to the review videos opens the possibilities for more ambitious projects.
nelsonic
commented
5 years ago https://shop.prusa3d.com/en/3d-printers/181-original-prusa-i3-mk3-3d-printer.html
Prusa have "temporarily disabled new orders of printers with powder-coated sheets until all orders from long-waiting customers will be shipped"
I feel that ordering an Original Prusa i3 MK3 without the powder-coated sheet negates one of the major benefits of the MK3 ... according to https://www.prusaprinters.org/autumn-update-powder-coated-sheets-prusament-slic3r-mmu2 there is quite a big backlog of orders ... 😞
@achingbrain did you get the textured powder-coated PEI surface? Is it that much better than the "standard" smooth one? (is it worth waiting to order for the powder coated PEI to be back in stock...? or just order now with smooth?)
achingbrain
commented
5 years ago I have the smooth one, it's great. The textured one should make initial layer stick better but I've not needed that - the fact that the bed is heated is enough for good adhesion once you calibrate the z-axis.
The textured one will obviously also leave the imprint of the texture on the bottom side of the print. If the external finish on your print is important this is something to consider.
achingbrain
commented
5 years ago The safety guy in that resin printer video is a bit paranoid. You can touch the uncured resin but it's hard to get completely off your hands (use IPA first, then soap & water) so gloves are best, otherwise it gets everywhere - light switches, cupboard doors, mugs, water glasses, cutlery, you name it. In that quantity it won't make you sick but it doesn't taste nice. Learnt that the hard way.
You can reuse gloves (though latex ones will start to get sticky as they dissolve) but obviously they'll have resin on them and it'll get on whatever you handle, so maybe that's what he means.
To dispose of IPA with uncured resin in it, no need to go to a specialist disposal place - just tip it into a ziplock bag and put it in the sun. The uncured resin will solidify over a few hours or days (in the UK..), then you can pour the IPA through a sieve back into the cleaning vat for reuse and throw the now-cured resin in the bin.
IPA itself is water soluble so can go down the sink. It is inflammable though and evaporates quickly so keep the lid on the bottle and away from anything that could ignite it and if pouring down the sink, flush it down with plenty of water.
It can also crack certain types of acrylic so if you drop resin on something made of perspex it's usually better to just wipe it off with a paper towel instead of using IPA. Also learnt that one the hard way.
Other than that he's spot on. The aluminium baking tray thing is a good idea, if you can find one big enough.
Once I get good at using an FDM printer, I will consider "upgrading" to an SLA.
I don't think it's really a case of upgrading - whether you use one or the other depends on what you want to print - SLA/DLP typically has much higher resolution than FDM so things like Hero Forge figures can't really be done well on an FDM printer - take a look at their examples for the difference. Chunky mechanical parts are best on FDM though.
Most skills will transfer but there are some that don't - for example positioning models to minimise suction and adding supports to models destined for a DLP/SLA printer is a bit of an art, though it's completely learnable, it just involves failing a lot 😉
The Moai group on Facebook is full of very helpful people who can help out with model rotation and support generation.
nelsonic
commented
5 years ago @achingbrain thanks for your patience and detailed answers! 🎉 What I meant by "upgrade" is in terms of quality (resolution) and skill. I feel like I'm going to need a lot of time to get into SLA/DLP. (I'm cool with "failing", just not right now) For the types of things I intend to print (custom enclosures for Aduino + Raspberry Pi Robots), I don't think we will need the higher resolution of SLA for the time being. Just "standard" FDM |> ABS. But when we do need the bump in resolution/quality, the Moai will be top of our list to consider.
Thanks for confirming that you have the "standard" PEI surface for the i3 Mk3. Ordering that. 👍
nelsonic
commented
5 years ago @iteles similar question to https://github.com/dwyl/learn-raspberry-pi/issues/10#issuecomment-459929086 ... Given the March 2019 delivery estimate, should we get the 3D printer sent to @home or Carca?
iteles
commented
5 years ago @nelsonic Always @home, unless it's early March in which case Carcavelos is fine because we'll be down there mid-month.
achingbrain
commented
5 years ago For the types of things I intend to print (custom enclosures for Aduino + Raspberry Pi Robots)
Ah, gotcha. FDM would be perfect then 😄
nelsonic
commented
5 years ago @achingbrain last question: what filament should we get now with our i3 MK3?
This is what I have in our "cart":
We've added a 4 types of filament (including the eye-watering "flexfill" @ €33,99 / 500g!) We feel this should be a good starting point. (we know there are cheaper places to buy filament but want get the "official" stuff so to minimise the print failure rate in the beginning...)
else?)nelsonic
commented
5 years ago Not to seem "impatient" but the sooner we place this order the sooner we will receive it. ⏳ So I'm going to order what Alex recommended (the i3 MK3) and a few filaments. 🤞
Can't say I particularly trust this page ... 🙄
Visa verification using OTP is a good sign:
Our order:
No indication on when it will be dispatched never mind delivered. Just have to be patient ...
nelsonic
commented
5 years ago Yesterday Josef Prusa announces the MK3S: https://www.prusaprinters.org/original-prusa-i3-mk3s-and-mmu2s-release-sl1-and-powder-coated-sheets-update/
It’s not a “major” upgrade but it’s improved a few things.
So, given that our order has not yet been dispatched, I contacted them to upgrade it.
The MK3S is the same price as the MK3 so I didn’t think it was unreasonable to request the upgrade.
Sure enough Radek sent us this email confirming the upgrade:
Refreshing to see people care about customers and able to make decisions.
Obviously if I didn’t ask I wouldn’t get it.
And it won’t affect the profitability of the sale.
There is plenty of margin in this transaction for Prusa.
But still, they didn’t have to update our order, they are being nice!
So I am grateful they did. ❤️
Context
We've designated a decent chunk of space @home as our workshop or "maker space". 👩🔬 Our plan is to have a (reasonably complete) set of prototyping/fabrication tools 🔨 that anyone staying in the house can (learn to safely) use to create anything 💡 from a basic 3D-printed replacement part to a product idea including electronics! :electron: In the near-term we are going to use the 3D printer to manufacture the cases for our IoT devices. 🌐 (this makes sense for our limited runs <20 where we expect tons of iteration ... more on that later)
We need to invest in the best 3D printer to suit our needs (not the most expensive).
Todo
We need help/advice on:
Our criteria is:
The "budget" I have in mind is reasonably flexible. 💭 Having previously done a bit of research into this, I feel that spending around £3k ($4k USD) will get us something of pretty high quality. Obviously if we can spend less that's good, or if we can justify spending more for faster/cheaper prints, better "future proofing" etc, we will.
Help Wanted!
If you have experience with 3D printers (i.e. you have used or owned one and printed a decent number of things) please share your insights. We are looking to order ours by the end of February 2019 so that we can begin using it to make parts!
@achingbrain I know you recently bought a 3D printer. Which one did you get? What was your criteria?