Waterfront Land in Souselo (Rio Paiva -> Douro River) 🤯

[nelsonic]

This land deserves its' own issue/thread. 😍

https://www.imohouse.pt/imovel/quinta-com-frente-de-rio-cinfaes/14965499

https://supercasa.pt/venda-quintas-e-casas-rusticas-t4-cinfaes/i227748

PDF: T4-à-venda-em-Souselo_compressed.pdf

If I could somehow sell everything I own and put a deposit down I would buy it immediately ... will add my thoughts on our visit as comments below. related to: dwyl/phase-three#3 + dwyl/phase-three#25

[nelsonic]

https://www.bbc.com/culture/article/20230123-8-of-the-worlds-best-forest-homes

[carolrmc]

That makes the other property seem so reasonable!! And with better river frontage!

On Tue, 24 Jan 2023 at 10:07, Nelson @.***> wrote:

https://www.bbc.com/culture/article/20230123-8-of-the-worlds-best-forest-homes

— Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub https://github.com/dwyl/phase-three/issues/116#issuecomment-1401670277, or unsubscribe https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AF37S7V53JZO6T6V7SB4EO3WT6SXJANCNFSM6AAAAAAQB2C47E . You are receiving this because you were mentioned.Message ID: @.***>

[nelsonic]

Of the properties currently for sale in the Souselo (Cinfães) area on a specialty "Quintas" (small farms) website: green-acres.pt/property-for-sale/cinfaes

None of them have river access and quite a few are more expensive yet worse than the land we're considering ... I honestly still think that we could turn a massive profit in the medium term with this idea. And in the short-term we get to have our own awesome Weekend/Holiday home with food forest and water sports!

@iteles want to go visit this one just for giggles: https://www.imovirtual.com/pt/anuncio/quinta-no-douro-com-praia-fluvial-ID165Ji.html#d6145d0a35

I actually prefer the seclusion of the land we are looking at. way more privacy and less noise from the river.

[nelsonic]

This is a quick sketch of a potential 50-spot camp site: Click to view larger.

I've written up a plan that gives ~€200k/year in revenue on a cost base of ~€100k. 💭 The total up-front investment would be the land price then ~€480k. The pay-back period for a well-run camp site is ~5-7 years depending on how frugal we can be. After that point we own the asset(s) outright and can either get a bank loan to develop it further or just make it our own personal farm and live off the cashflow from other investments.

I don't have excess time to be developing this idea further right now. But if it were up to me I would buy the land immediately as an inflation hedge and then dedicate my time to it as soon as Braga @home is complete.

[carolrmc]

That’s a lot os sites

On Sun, 6 Aug 2023 at 20:19, Nelson @.***> wrote:

This is a quick sketch of a potential 50-spot camp site: [image: image] https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/194400/258661033-38c78d05-9ad7-45eb-85a0-1a9b2e52ee73.png Click to view larger.

I've written up a plan that gives ~€200k/year in revenue on a cost base of ~€100k. 💭 The total up-front investment would be the land price then ~€480k. The pay-back period for a well-run camp site is ~5-7 years depending on how frugal we can be. After that point we own the asset(s) outright and can either get a bank loan to develop it further or just make it our own personal farm and live off the cashflow from other investments.

I don't have excess time to be developing this idea further right now. But if it were up to me I would buy the land immediately as an inflation hedge and then dedicate my time to it as soon as Braga @home is complete.

— Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub https://github.com/dwyl/phase-three/issues/116#issuecomment-1666948421, or unsubscribe https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AF37S7QHHFZUAJFWUBDTPCLXT7U43ANCNFSM6AAAAAAQB2C47E . You are receiving this because you were mentioned.Message ID: @.***>

[nelsonic]

@carolrmc indeed. This is just for illustration purposes to communicate the idea. 💡 "a lot" of camping/camper pitches depends on your perspective. It's no more than other sites of similar dimensions. It's worth noting: this is the capacity. Not the number that will be full every day. I don't think there is any accommodation (Hotel, Camp Site, Aparthotel, etc.) in the world that has 100% occupancy 100% of the time. If there was it would rapidly be copied and "equilibrium" restored. I'm just trying to figure out what is possible. Not setting in stone what we definitely will have.

The idea is to have a privacy barrier vine/hedge between each spot so that nobody looks at anyone else. And with more than enough space that nobody needs to feel cramped. Firstly, we wouldn't have 50 pitches from day one; just 7. And secondly it would take ~3 years to "ramp up". Similarly we wouldn't have all the amenities from day one either. These would be added during "low season".

Then once we reach the 50 capacity, the camping pitches would gradually be transformed into 30 off-grid cabins and tiny homes (non-permanent structures) with a much higher annual revenue but also higher maintenance costs.

Have a quick look at: https://www.booking.com/hotel/nl/camping-vliegenbos-cabin.en-gb.html

Yes, this is in Holand, near Amsterdam, but it's €459 for 2 nights for a cabin for a family of 2 adults and 2 children:

The cabins are what most people would consider "basic" but I quite like them.

Being raised off the ground, none of them are wheelchair friendly ...

Point is this: I think every Euro we invest into land and building something will be worth 2 Euros in 10 years. That is an inflation-beating (by miles) investment with a 8-10% annualised return.

Camping/van pitches is an ultra-low cost/maintenance way of getting to revenue. (i.e. not going broke) If we charge a market-clearing (cheapest by far) price of €20/night and include the free use of the activities such as paddle boarding and fishing it will be a €1k/day business. But if we can gradually replace the best placed pitches with 30 cabins and charge €60/night (with the same activities) it's €1.8k/day... But all of this is conjecture. The point is we can make money with the land if we want to. More detail in our dedicated Camp Site Research issue: https://github.com/dwyl/phase-three/issues/141

[nelsonic]

watch/listen to 5 mins of the latest Huberman AMA podcast: https://youtu.be/eJU6Df_ffAE?t=105 and in particular: https://youtu.be/eJU6Df_ffAE?t=341

Gist: to optimise health & sleep, spend time in nature near a "moving body of water". 💧

[nelsonic]

2M ... https://www.imovirtual.com/pt/anuncio/quinta-na-lomba-ID1c9vG.html

[nelsonic]

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40726974 🔝

https://github.com/dylanaraps

Yes please. 🙏

[nelsonic]

@carolrmc now that you have visited the land in-person what are your thoughts? 💭 If you scroll up to the proposed layout above https://github.com/dwyl/phase-three/issues/116#issuecomment-1666948421 ⬆️ Do you think works as a camp site that we could run as a Multi-lingual Summer School with a focus on STEM, Nature, Sports and Sustainable farming/living? 🧑‍🔬 🧑‍🌾 ⛵ Gradually building up the infrastructure to the point where our kids could have the time of their life each year? And then it runs as a regular (but awesome!) camp site the rest of the year?

Please have a read of my draft: douro.md 🙏 And share your thoughts when you have some time. 💬

[carolrmc]

This is a very interesting indepth plan and for the most part doable. I guess you'll have to prioritise things in order of urgency and earliest financial return. In the meantime, get one of your travelling house guests to do some research for local places to get materials and possible builders to start as soon as you get the go ahead. Even if you have the 2 cottages ready, you can start letting. As things progress, the forest/survival school can be implemented. Someone has to be a qualified forest school teacher/leader/facilitator and all obvious dangers and toxic plants removed. It is an awesome site for kids to explore! So much potential!

[nelsonic]

Thanks for the feedback! 🙏 So glad you got a chance to visit in-person. 😍 Any more thoughts very much appreciated if you have time. 💭