Toggl

[nelsonic]

Today in our team call we emphasised the need to focus/renew our efforts to both estimate our tasks and effectively track the time against our estimates. I asked the people on the call: "what online tool do you use for tracking the time on your current task?" i.e. are you using a Pomodoro timer that is linked to your current task and is the data persisted online? (there are many offline Pomodoro timers that do not save data to a web app, those don't count)

On the basis that the majority of people on the call are not using such a tool, I recommended that we all use Toggl https://toggl.com for the next few days to test the UX.

Todo: UX-Test Toggl by Using the App!

• [ ] Register for the "30 day free trial" of Toggl.
• [ ] Approach using the App from a "beginners mind" perspective where your objective is to learn everything you can about how the App works, what are the:
  • [ ] Features you most enjoy using
  • [ ] Gripes or "bugs" you would solve if you had a "magic wand"
  • [ ] Wishlist for how you want the App to work (from a UX/UI perspective)
• [ ] Capture as much of your day as you can in the App. including personal activities such as exercise, reading, cooking or other leisure activities.
• [ ] Capture what you work on (for @dwyl) in the format: {issue-path} {issue-title} ({time-estimate}) e.g: "dwyl/learn-elixir/issues/95 Writeup How to create a Hex.pm Package (4 hours)"
  • [ ] Track the time on your estimated tasks as accurately as you can.
    • [ ] When you take a "break" from your work, stop the timer.
    • [ ] If someone interrupts you, stop the timer and start the "interruptions" timer.
• [ ] Log your journey in comments in this issue so that we capture the UX/UI in a single place.

  Note: if this issue gets "noisy", that's "OK" we will tidy it up later (when we do our "write up")

The next time we have an "all hands" call we will discuss our collective progress with this task.

[Cleop]

I didn't find the linking with Github very easy to access:

It's under 'Import/Export' which is greyed out and in a 'show more' part of the menu. So I assumed it was a paid for feature. I only found it after reading 2 help articles. Even within that title, you have to click integrations to get to the right tab:

Once I had given Toggl permission to access my github, I would have preferred if it had done the initial sync for me as it wasn't clear what I had to do next:

Then even after I had done the sync I wasn't really sure what this meant. I only happened to notice my project names pop up when I was adding a project:

Most annoyingly though it only imports projects that I created the repo for (ie Cleop projects not dwyl projects), so it's not of use to me right now anyway.

[nelsonic]

Features: https://toggl.com/features a graphic of a levitating lady telekinetically juggling random objects: If Toggl will give me the powers of levitation and telekinesis, I'm sold! However scrolling through the "features" page I at no point see the actual App UI/UX; Just a bunch of BS marketing promises (unsubstantiated claims) and unrelated cartoonish images: Lots of scrolling ... like the person reading the page has infinite time to kill. 🤦‍♂️ #NeverWasteTime

Pricing: https://toggl.com/pricing 💸 $10/user/month is the minimum price for the "starter" tier. 🙄

Their landing page(s) used to be much better. ⌛️ If I was a new user seeing this page for the first time, I don't think I would "convert". 👎

[nelsonic]

https://toggl.com/signup

First thing I'm greeted with is a modal: It tells me that the product is too complicated for me to understand and I need to "Hire a Toggl Consultant" ... "Have a certified advisor tailor Toggl to suit your company’s needs"

• Set up multi-user Toggl workspace from scratch
• Learn how to integrate Toggl with everyone’s workflow
• Set up integrations with your existing tools

Why not just let me start using the product before showing me this noise?

https://toggl.com/app/timer want to create a project, that's a modal too ...

https://toggl.com/app/profile

Tracking my time on this task:

And we're off to the races! (who ever tracks the most time in Toggl get's a prize!) 🥇

[nelsonic]

Oh look, another Modal ... "become a beta tester" ... Really? I just started using your core product and now you are spamming me with "beta testing"...?! 😕

[rub1e]

I've been on the site for 0 seconds and they've already tried to upsell - I can hire a "certified" TOGGL "consultant" to set it up for my team! (I instinctively dismissed it before taking a screenshot, sorry)

[nelsonic]

@rub1e scroll up for the "consultant" modal. 😉

[SimonLab]

The web application doesn't really work on mobile. You can still login but some features are not working.

[Cleop]

You can't attribute a block of time to more than one project.

E.g. I've just been checking my notifications and planning my day which has consisted of things both for 'Time' and 'Club Soda' but toggl will only let me attribute that block of time to one or the other.

I suppose I might expect it to allow me to attribute it to multiple projects but then divide the amount of time by the number of projects...? I can see how/why it might be confusing but at the same time I feel like there should be a solution.

[rub1e]

• Gamification

I don't like it. It feels infantilising.

• Accuracy

Perhaps this says more about my way of working than anything else... I just don't find timers a particularly accurate way of tracking my time.

For example, if I'm doing a lengthy task and an email comes in which I can action in two minutes, I'll just reply to the email so it's off my list. Every time that happens, I forget to stop the timer - which makes the whole thing a bit futile.

(Though I appreciate this might fall into the "operator error" category)

• Getting started

There's an old Eddie Izzard gag about how the first thing a man does upon purchasing a new printer is to fling the instructions out of the window

I kinda want online productivity tools to be the sort of thing where I can fling the instructions out of the window...

... which this kinda does. I created an account, typed the activity I was doing, hit Enter and the timer started. Which is great! But...

... Now what? I get the impression that to use this for anything other than ad-hoc time tracking, I'd have to set up a bunch of categories and labels and projects and then wait a few months before there was enough data in there to actually analyse...

... and then I'd have to spend time learning how to do the analysis!

(And I'm really anxious that whatever data I do collect on my habits will be useless, because I didn't set up the right labels/categories/etc. in the first place)

[nelsonic]

@rub1e we agree that the UX can be improved. And that we need a way of context switching from one activity to the other when the "quick task" (like answering an email) is "only 2mins".

Want to "Be more effective. Upgrade now" ...

This is the kind of nonsense "up-sell" we will avoid. Our product will have all the features free for individual use.

Transition from "another system" ... how do you know that I've been using another system? 😕

[nelsonic]

If you click on the annoying RED "Upgrade now" button, this is what you see: https://toggl.com/app/subscription/3207297/all-plans

That URL should give you some insight into how many user accounts are on the Toggl system.

3,207,297 people have tried Toggl (implied)

And the "/all-plans" route is custom-generated based on your user "cohort". (not "main" pricing page!) In other words they engage in price discrimination based on when you joined, where you live etc.

[rub1e]

I can't stop looking at that red button. It's almost offensive, the idea that you'll instantly become a more effective person if you click here and enter your credit card details.

Imagine if Waist-Watchers had a button saying "Get thinner. Upgrade now"

Good insight re the /all-plans route 👍

[nelsonic]

Has anyone started a timer incorrectly and then deleted it?

[nelsonic]

The irrelevant modal noise is starting to grate me ... My "clients" don't care about "elegant reports"! They only care about their product being built! I've only been using your product for 3 days I don't have enough data in your system for a "report"!

If anyone seeing this "Meme" hasn't watched "Office Space": https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0151804 Add it to your "watch list". It's not the most amazing movie you'll ever watch, but it's a "cult classic". And you'll get some insight into what producing pointless "reports" does to people's morale.

[SimonLab]

feedback question on the main app screen:

[iteles]

Most of the little prompts in the corner of the screen don't annoy me at all because I can still do what I need to do without having to click off them. But the ones that block my field of vision I find pretty annoying, particularly when they are irrelevant to me.

Got this new one today which is pretty relevant and could be useful (but the pop-up in the middle of my screen still annoyed me):

What's more annoying is that rather than having a little arrow pointing to where I needed to go with a small instructions window (I understand this is difficult cross-platform but they've had years to perfect this), they took me to a new page that I then had to click away from and remember the instructions when I got back to the timers page:

[Cleop]

I like the fact that on timer mode you can still change the start time because sometimes I forget to start the timer (which I want to be on timer mode) but I need to add the 5 mins it took me to realise the timer wasn't running!

[nelsonic]

@Cleop yeah, the ability to retrospectively update the start or end of a timer is a useful feature.

Have you noticed how if the time ticks over from AM to PM you have to manually change that? (try starting a timer just after midday and then try changing the start time to before midday ... you will need to manually change the "PM" to "AM" for change in start time to work ...)

Also, if you forget to start a timer the previous day, (not that anyone should be working past midnight!) You cannot set a start time to the previous day: Here the "Today" is greyed out (it cannot be edited).

I think this is a good "constraint" because it means people cannot retrospectively "invent" how they spent their time and instead are forced to track what they do while they are doing it.

[rub1e]

• Good Office Space memeing, but you shouldn't have to explain what Office Space is - your staff should just know.
  • @RobStallion this is more Dilbert-era office bantz, get involved
• Agree with both Nelson and Ines about the modals, in that they're incredibly annoying (in a productivity app, FFS), but ultimately they are ignorable
• Being able to edit your start/end time is in theory desirable, BUT I think you eventually get to a place very similar to timesheets - where you bash them out on Friday afternoon and fill in any gaps on the fly just to get it done
  • One simple solution might be to have a couple of buttons for "add/subtract 5 mins" - so you can account for undocumented time quickly and easily

[iteles]

I have been noting down things I particularly like and things that annoy me over the last few days in an effort to contain my thoughts within one place. Whereas this list is not exhaustive , it contains the things that captured my attention the most.

I chiefly use the desktop application and occasionally the online version - the latter particularly when I'm amending timers or filling in missed times.

Likes:

• Timer name displays in the tab in-browser for online timer, reminding me that it’s on 

• You get a reminder to track your time if your timer isn't on from the desktop app - once it happens the first time, happens every 15-30 mins if you’re not idle on your computer (haven’t quite figured out the timings of this yet):

• Icon in top bar of mac is different if the timer is on or off (full black for timer on and empty for timer off)

• Because I can use it on desktop as an app, I use my mobile phone less (my previous timer app was on mobile) = less distractions
 from picking up my phone and seeing notifications

• Clicking into the timer name field gives you a full list of your most recent timers: And typing gives you an instantly filtered drop-down list of similarly named timers you’ve used in the past so you can add to them: 


• If you change the name of a timer to be exactly the same name as a previous timer, it knows to automatically group them together (I’ve found this useful quite a few times because I go to start one task and start a timer for it and then either a notification or something catches my eye when I get to the tool I need to use for that task and I take a 5 minute diversion, which means I then need to recategorise my timer) - note that if there are 2 timers with the same name but different projects (or one is uncategorised), they will not merge :raised_hands:

• You can choose how long your idle detection time is (on desktop) & it gives you the option to keep or discard your idle time once it detects you have not used your computer for more than that length of time:

• If you change the start time of a finished timer, it changes the end time so that the duration of that time stays the same. But if you change the end time, it doesn’t change the start time

Gripes

• UX for changing a task name - I right-clicked on the task, clicked on the little three dot menu at the end of the row… nothing. So I had to google it and apparently all you do is click on the title, but I didn’t notice the cursor and thought the slight colour change was just highlighting!

• The modals every time you open toggl in the browser have been discussed above at length:
  


• Not really a gripe, but I would love to be able to see the name of the task I was working on in the top bar when using the desktop app:
  

• It’s so boring to look at! It just ’sparks no joy` and I’m pretty un-engaged with it as an app

• If I get a portion of the way into my day or a task before I realise I haven’t started any timers, it’s a real hassle to add past timers. You have to start a timer for at least a few seconds now and then go into them and adjust the start and end times. This is how I ended up with 6 ’Sort out toggl timers’ entries, I kept having to start a new timer for the task I wanted to add and then go back to the ‘Sort out timers’ one:
• TogglDesktop is quite glitchy and at least once a day I lose the name of a timer I’ve just written up when I press ‘enter’ or ’play’ - it just wipes the input field and nothing happens. I have to restart the app for it to work

Issues with timing in general

• The path-first approach isn’t useful on desktop which is by default a small screen (can be expanded) and makes it harder to quickly scan the list and see which timer is what:
• You’ll notice that there are very few entries for this issue in my timers - this is because I quickly flitted to a place where I was keeping track of my research whenever I had anything to write and didn’t switch my timer from my actual task
• Things I forgot to time: Checking notifications for non-client projects - if it’s something I’m not going to contribute to immediately but is something I need to stay up to date on like cid, answering a 'quick message' on gitter to unblock someone, tiny admin tasks that required replying to an issue with a one sentence answer (under 3 minute tasks in general really)
• Things I didn’t know how to categorise and therefore were holes in my timing: Checking notifications for projects (eventually I started lumping this into ‘Project name’ timers but didn’t always time these for the first couple of days), random tasks for Braga (answering phone calls, replying on a question, meetings with workmen, driving into town to pick up an important registered letter from the town council) - there were more things in this list and I will continue to add to it when I come across something

Features I still want to try out

• Pomodoro timers!
• Timeline recording - this is by far what I miss the most from 'Now Then' which I was using prior to Toggl

[Cleop]

I definitely agree re what to do with very small chunks of time context switches e.g. someone gitter messages you, checking github notifications, coffee/toilet break etc.

I suppose it's somewhat down to the individual to determine at what point these small chunks of time are significant e.g. popping to the kitchen to top up a water bottle might not be worth switching for, whereas popping to the kitchen for a pomodoro break and making a coffee that takes time to brew whilst having kitchen small talk might be considered worth logging.

I suppose it is also determined by what purpose you're using the app for e.g. if you're a freelancer then I imagine you still bill for a coffee break so I don't know if in that situation they'd include it as part of their task time? But if you're not freelance maybe you want to get an idea of whether those 2min coffee breaks really are 2mins / how much caffeine you are consuming (/how much money you are giving to Starbucks) / what your concentration patterns are / <insert other reason to analyse your time here> etc. The same applies for a 5 second glance at a gitter message vs a 'hey can you check this thing for me for a second...' type gitter messages that may take longer than first imagined.

[Cleop]

I was just taking a glance at my Toggl and noticed I've not been keeping up assigning my tasks to projects as diligently as when I first began. I think I'm somewhat disappointed by the github integration. So far all I've noticed that does is import a list of my project names (which as I said before doesn't include other orgs you're part of, just personal repos which isn't very useful for me.)

I think it would be better (if it's possible) if it could assign things to a project automatically by analysing a github issue url or similar. I feel like if I'm someone trying to give this a good shot and I forgot to assign a project within under a week, then I certainly won't be alone. The more we can automate, the better 😊

Also, a separate point but relating to my comment above. I wonder whether we should be integrating goal setting into our timing (probably something @nelsonic and @iteles have already thought of 😂 ). I was just thinking about the reasons I made above for how you'd dissect small chunks of time in your day; whether they'd be lumped together into a 'productive' task or whether you'd skim them out and realise you'd spent 30mins that day on getting a drink alone. It might not be for everyone e.g. if you're just tracking for time sheets and don't care about your employer or believe in wanting to improve your productivity. But I feel like maybe if people had the ability to set a goal for their time keeping it might encourage them to be honest or to think about how tracking their time can be beneficial for them or if there are any changes they make. For example you might realise that context switching and time on gitter is taking up 1hr a day when you thought it was just a minute here and a minute there and maybe it would encourage you to change how frequently you check or what kind of notifications you set up.

[Cleop]

I'd like it if there's a way we could group together entries with almost the same name (by ignoring upper/lower case) either retrospectively or somehow more efficiently when you create them (I know there are currently recent suggestions you wrote but evidently I ignored those enough to create so many variations of the same title:

I also wonder if you could schedule certain events to occur daily e.g. stand up so you wouldn't have to do it manually, or even integrating it with your calendar to import those events.

[iteles]

@Cleop Good thoughts! Just so you know, if you use the exact same name for them, they group automatically.

[rub1e]

@iteles @Cleop Not sure if this is what you're getting at, but you know you can just press "play" on completed timer entries? So you don't need to re-enter the name of the activity: just find the existing entry in the list and press play on the far right hand side

[Cleop]

@rub1e - yes I use and like that functionality. It's more that sometimes I'll start something in the top bar (for convenience) and then forget I had an existing entry (or the name of the existing entry) and so end up giving it a new name. For those who have a strict naming convention I'm sure it wouldn't be an issue but otherwise you can end up with several with almost similar names. I liked the idea of being able to retrospectively group things to have the same name or for the app to detect almost the same names and ask if they should be grouped. Maybe not something that would be useful in all contexts but just an idea...

[nelsonic]

@Cleop good feature idea. please create the issue in: https://github.com/dwyl/time/issues 👍

[RobStallion]

My favourite toggl feature by far... (enough to take me away from the desktop app back to the browser)

active

not

• Reminds me to actually use it because I see it(good step to have while I am trying to make this a habit)
• I can see at a glance how long I have been working on a task without even switching tabs.
• I can see if the timer is active or not (above images)

[Cleop]

I just wanted to link this issue with another UX research issue for another app: https://github.com/dwyl/time/issues/184

[nelsonic]

I've been using Toggl exclusively in the Web Browser because I feel that the UX in the Browser should be flawless and I should not be forced to download a "native" App in order to use the functionality!

There are plenty of people who prefer to always us a "native" App because they have been conditioned by their Smartphone/OS vendor to discover Apps in the "App Store". 📱🙄

Early on in the Smart Phone "race", Apple aggressively marketed the iTunes App Store with the slogan/campaign "There’s An App For That™" to the extent that they trademarked it!

This "operant conditioning" means that people often expect a native App and will perform most of their interaction through it or simply not use the service if a native App is unavailable. While this issue is not the place to go into the merits of a Native App vs. PWA, I do want to highlight on specific thing which I find annoying about Toggl ...

Note: we have an issue for your thoughts on "Native" Apps: https://github.com/dwyl/technology-stack/issues/24 💬🙏

A fairly major "gripe" I have is that when I visit the homepage: https://toggl.com I see the following:

The homepage does not recognise me as an existing user, even though I am logged in. (in a diff tab) There is no quick way to see my active timer from the homepage and while there is a "Log in" link in the top navigation, it's not very prominent (it's a much smaller font) than the H1 "Where did time go?"

When I click on "Log in" I'm taken to https://toggl.com/login my Browser pre-populates the data: But the fact is that the Application is not recognising that I am already Logged-in (which I am!!)

What I'm highlighting here is more of a "session management" issue than anything else. But it affects the UX of the App because "as a user" ... I don't want to be forced to remember that I have to navigate to: https://toggl.com/app/timer in order to see my active timer ...!

We can do much better!

[nelsonic]

I've just discovered my biggest "gripe" with this UI/UX: If for any reason your web browser is unable to access the Toggl website/API then nothing works! No offline functionality whatsoever in the Browser-based version. 😞 (the internet was being "intermittent" in the office today ... Toggl just flat-out stopped working!) I can still get my work done without Internet, because I have many things I can read/write offline. But I cannot allocate my time appropriately without having internet access. 💔

[nelsonic]

This error message appeared at the bottom of the web UI when I attempted to stop a timer ... This is exactly how not to do error messaging:

• temporary - blink an you'll miss it!
• out of context - not visually near to the action being performed (e.g: next to my timer or the "stop" button)
• useless - no insight into what went wrong or why!
• so what? - what can I do about it?