nelsonic commented 5 years ago

I have been researching which camera to use as my "A" video camera so that I/we can level-up my/our video game. The "tl;dr" is: I'm buying a Sony A7 III + Lenses with my own cash and will make it available to anyone else @home who wants to use it for stills/video.

Why?

Storytelling with video is the 21st century equivalent of literacy (ready & writing). I feel that it should be integral part of the primary school creative visual arts curriculum and everyone should learn how to produce video. I firmly believe that being able to capture, condense and share video makes the World a "better place". It helps us to share our own ideas and to empathise with people with whom we share very little in common day-to-day.

The "everyone should learn to code" quote from Steve Jobs is often repeated:

I feel that a similar quote/mindset applies to video:

"Everyone should learn how to create `video` because it teaches you how to communicate"

My personal learning objective for the next year of my life is to capture all of my DIY/Furniture projects for @home. I will be sharing as many of the project plans as possible as "Open Source" which will be useful to other people who want to build their own furniture, kitchens, home office, etc. 💡

What?

Having a ~~good~~ great camera is the first step in the journey to ~~good~~ great video. No amount of "post production" work can repair a poor image so I feel it makes sense to start with the best sensor I can afford.

Yes, there are plenty of people making videos on their smart phones, and that works well in many situations, but I want something I can use in low-light and with more fine-grained control than a typical smart phone - even an iPhone XS or Pixel 3. I also want "professional" workflow beyond what a phone offers ... I'm still going to use my iPhone SE to capture video without a doubt! I just want to have an "A Game" camera I can use for the highest possible quality.

Last year I bought the Canon G7X MKII and it's been excellent for for personal video (which I've accumulated around 4TB ... a full Lacie Rugged Drive ... in the past year!) see: https://github.com/edwardcodes/Around-the-World/issues/9

I haven't uploaded any of the videos because I have no intention of doing a (personal) "Vlog". I'm not "knocking" Vlogs, they have their place, I just don't think my life is that "interesting" (to other people) and don't want to waste anyone else's time with my personal "home movies".

While I don't feel that I've "outgrown" the G7X MK II in terms of my abilities as an amateur, I feel that I want to push myself to learn how to be a professional using the equipment people making videos for a living are using. Ultimately, I want the quality of my video to be good enough that I can become a professional videographer.

Does (Camera Sensor) Size Matter?

Benjamin Jaworskyj has a good video on this: (it's a bit protracted but goes into decent detail ...) https://youtu.be/UnLyg7TZEuY

After asking Google "Which DSLR/Mirrorless for video?" and reading Borrow Lenses insightful comparison https://www.borrowlenses.com/blog/best-dslr-for-video into DSLR (Canon/Nikon) and Mirrorless Full Frame (Sony), I went down a "rabbit hole" of looking at Canon Cameras ... 🔍⏳

I considered getting a Canon 5D MK IV, but it was heavy, (comparatively) slow, has a fixed screen and crops video at 4K (which means it's basically useless for 4K video)! ✂️

My next line of enquiry was Canon 6D MK II which looked much better (fold-out-screen) but suffers from poor "edge" auto-focus, reduced dynamic range and "only" does 1080p @ 30FPS 🙄 see Jared Polin's real-world review: https://youtu.be/1Po4Ct8B2Oo ...

Next I looked at the Canon XC10/15 as a dedicated Video device, but the 1" sensor is much too "weak" considering the price! see: https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/crossing-the-bridge-canon-xc10-review (it doesn't have that much more to offer over my G7X MKII which is much more compact/versatile!)

One of my biggest "gripes" with @iteles' Canon 7D is the "jackhammer" mechanical shutter sound! Not that I have any intention of taking pictures where I'm not supposed to (e.g. museums), just that I find it super annoying to her the "clack" of DSLR shutters! My other biggest issues with the 7D are the (relatively) "slow" auto-focus and if you are using an external Microphone (and are recording in-doors) it will pickup the noise of the AF motor. 😞

Long-story short, my reasoning for considering going mirrorless is to eliminate shutter noise!!

So my next line of enquiry was the Panasonic Lumix DC-GH5 Mirrorless Micro Four Thirds which looks really good! https://github.com/dwyl/video/issues/1#issuecomment-277609463

The Amazon (UK) price for the GH5 with LEICA 12-60 mm Lens is £1,665.85 + VAT (luckily we have a biz that is registered for VAT so we could claim that back) https://smile.amazon.co.uk/Panasonic-DC-GH5LEB-K-Compact-System-Camera/dp/B01MT7AK63/ Also, Panasonic UK has a Promo which would have given a further £250 of discount ("cash back")! https://smile.amazon.co.uk/b/ref=dp_wintercashback?node=15909708031 Specifically the second item in the cashback table:

So this idea was immensely appealing to me ... the GH5 is an amazing camera with many pro video features!

So ... I kept watching review videos, especially "long term" reviews such as this one from super popular professional Vlog/Videographers Tony & Chelsea Northrup: Panasonic GH5 Long-term Review (2018): A YouTuber's Workhorse https://youtu.be/73vBlRjauDI

In the video Tony describes how having 4K 60p is useful for "run-and-gun" style shooting. Because shooting in 4K means they can crop the video in "post" and remove anything they don't want and can do "in-camera cuts" by zooming in (again in post) giving the "two camera" effect. I understand this mindset on the surface. But storing 4k 60p video obliterates hard drives and take much longer to edit/render! I don't think I would use it.

GH5 Autofocusing ... 😞

"I cannot recommend the GH5 for people who are going to film themselves ..." 3:13

At this point is was "back to the drawing board" in terms of the GH5. So now my only realistic option is Sony!

Sony A7 Series (Mirrorless Full Frame)

This was the most insightful introductory article I read on the subject: https://www.digitaltrends.com/photography/best-sony-a7-series-camera which A7 model should I get? https://camerajabber.com/which-sony-a7-camera (May 2018)

Faruk Korkmaz (iPhonedo) did a superb intro/review for the A7 III: https://youtu.be/5IQ6uk1e8-g In this video Faruk starts by saying that he returned his GH5 because of the autofocus and is delighted by the A7 III for Autofocus, Low-light and Video Quality. 🎉 (we're off to a good start!)

A7S II or A7 III ?

@sohilpandya first recommended/suggested the A7S II in https://github.com/dwyl/video/issues/1#issuecomment-277643497 (last year) https://www.sony.co.uk/electronics/interchangeable-lens-cameras/ilce-7sm2

"Ultra-high sensitivity, extra-wide dynamic range and improved image processing algorithm deliver high-quality images with spectacular details."

Comparison between the two modes I am considering: https://youtu.be/9YIMkJbxrGU

Philip Bloom's a7S Seminar is super insightful on the capabilities of the camera for film-making: https://youtu.be/zeX-eZXaRtw

Sony A7iii Design Features/Improvements

This is a good video summary of why the Sony A7iii is better than previous models (including A7SII)

EISA Named the A7 III Camera of the Year 2018-2019

When viewing the official product page on the Sony website, it's noted that the A7 III was named as "Camera of the Year 2018-2019" by EISA (Expert Imaging and Sound Association). EISA is a consortium of professional multimedia (photo/video/sound) magazines, they are experts. https://www.sony.com/electronics/interchangeable-lens-cameras/ilce-7m3-body-kit

Can I use a Canon Lens with a Sony A7{x} Camera?

The obvious next question when considering an interchangeable lens camera is:

Can I use my existing lenses? (or if you are completely new to this ...)
Can I use reasonably priced high quality lenses with the Sony A7 range?

To which the answer is Yes! 🎉

Read: https://briansmith.com/sony-a7-a7r-lens-mount-adapters/ Short answer: yes! It's possible to use Canon EF lenses on Sony A7 Cameras using a reasonably cheap adapter:

https://youtu.be/jFdppCfLbcQ

Brandon Li advises against using Canon Lenses with the Metabones EF to E-mount: https://youtu.be/H7m9rpp-dYw Says that the Autofocus was inconsistent with the Canon lens... 😕 This is not going to affect me because I will be investing in the Sony "G" and Zeiss lenses, (see below) but it's good to know that I can use Inês' 100-400mm Telephoto lens if I ever want/need to.

Sony or Zeiss Lens?

Zeiss 16-70mm vs Sony 18-105 G Lens Comparison https://youtu.be/hiVYb-960QU

Sony FE 28-70mm Lens Review - A Great Kit Lens For Only $200

https://youtu.be/KP2ZVI8scjs

Counter Arguments Against the Sony Mirrorless System

https://petapixel.com/2016/04/04/sonys-full-frame-pro-mirrorless-fatal-mistake makes a few valid points but is mostly based on out-dated data about "older" Sony models. good rebuttal: https://petapixel.com/2016/04/05/defense-sonys-pro-mirrorless-cameras

Ultimately the autofocus on the A7 III and A9 is insanely good (much better than the equivalent Canon/Panasonic) and the camera size/weight argument is irrelevant to me. What matters to me is the quality of the photo/video and the elimination of shutter noise.

nelsonic commented 5 years ago

Guide to A7 Lens Adapters: https://briansmith.com/sony-a7-a7r-lens-mount-adapters/

nelsonic commented 5 years ago

Price Research

RRP: $1,999.99 (Body) $2,199.99 (Body + 28-70 mm Zoom Lens) https://www.sony.com/electronics/interchangeable-lens-cameras/ilce-7m3-body-kit sony-rrp

The Amazon (UK) price (body only) is £1,899: https://www.amazon.co.uk/d/Compact-Cameras/Sony-ILCE7M3KB-CEC-Mirrorless-Compact-SEL2870/B07B4L1PQ8/

Fnac (PT) price (body only) is €2300: https://www.fnac.pt/Sony-Alpha-%CE%B17-Mark-III-Corpo-Camara-Fotografica-Digital-Camara-CSC-Mirrorless/a1614520

The only reason I would consider buying it from a physical retailer would be for an extended warrantee ... 🤔 (this has worked out well in the past when cameras have accidentally gone swimming!)

Best Price on Ebay

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/UK-Sony-Alpha-a7-III-Mirrorless-Digital-Camera-Body-Only/183192214453

Kit with a basic Sony FE 28-70mm f/3.5-5.6 OSS Lens:

This lens by itself is $398: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1015472-REG/sony_sel2870_fe_28_70mm_f_3_5_5_6_oss.html But if I were to go on "holiday" with this setup, I would probably only take the 24mm f1.4 G (see below), so I feel it might be a bit "redundant" ... (it might not get much use ...)

The ebay seller " https://www.ebay.co.uk/usr/60roadebut seems legit (enough positive feedback):

Lenses?

Obviously I would like to get the best lenses available, but they are obscenely expensive!! 😞 This is a good post on Lenses for the A7 series: https://www.slrlounge.com/first-5-lenses-buy-sony-a7-series-camera The article was published in 2016 and a lot has happened (been released) since then.

These are the lenses I would like get in the order I would buy them:

Sony FE 24mm f/1.4 GM Lens

This is perfect lens for close-up and low-light. It has a focal distance of 24cm.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1435887-REG/sony_fe_24mm_f_1_4_gm.html

Reviews:

https://youtu.be/aW-xRCrZXIc

https://youtu.be/CBrVKfEhjZU

https://youtu.be/SSf7Z-yp6xU

https://youtu.be/DM2otwnuiTE

This is the review that shows the most Video taken with the lens and the A7 III: I must say, I agree wholeheartedly with this. If I could only have one lens, this would be it! iPhonedo summarises my thoughts on this:

https://youtu.be/HNXM9MDR-8I Max compares the 28mm F2.0 (Tamron) lens to the Sony 24mm/F1.4, it's a noticeable difference.

Jason literally describes this lens as a "dream come true" ... https://youtu.be/hX7m_XpgCdI

Sony FE 12-24 F/4 G Lens Review

https://youtu.be/CBSiaGvLX9c - the review is fairly factual, but Mark Galer is a "Sony Ambassador" ... 🙄

Cheapest I found online was again on eBay: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/UK-Sony-FE-12-24mm-f-4-G-Lens-Full-Frame-E-Mount-SEL1224G/183042488296

Sony FE 24-240mm f/3.5-6.3 OSS Lens

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-Sony-FE-24-240mm-f-3-5-6-3-OSS-Lens-F3-5-6-3-SEL24240/183308496357

Sony Vario-Tessar T* E 16-70mm F4

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/UK-Sony-Vario-Tessar-T-E-16-70mm-F4-ZA-OSS-E-mount-Lens-SEL1670Z/183042488520

3^rd Party Lenses (budget)

Samyang 12mm F2.0

€259,99 on Fnac (eGlobalCentral) https://www.fnac.pt/mp11958759/Objectiva-Samyang-12mm-F2-0-NCS-CS-para-Sony-E-Mount-APS-C-Preto

Direct: https://www.eglobalcentral.eu/samyang-12mm-f2.0-ncs-cs-lens-for-sony-e-mount-with-hoya-67mm-filter-black.html

Video review: https://youtu.be/y7XiuV_u8XE

But First ...

Before spending a ton of cash on the really nice Sony G lens, I'm going to get an adapter to try using the Canon glass @iteles already has ...

https://youtu.be/b_dVkZasTCI

https://youtu.be/_FVCHHRD7Y8

Sigma appears to be the adapter that works best with face/eye autofocus:

Price in Portugal:

Best available price on eBay: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sigma-MC-11-Mount-Converter-Canon-EOS-to-Sony-E-Mount-Adapter/253980887040

Ordered it:

I'm also bidding on a Metabones MK V on ebay. Not expecting to win it ... The RRP is $450 🙄 Reviews aren't amazing for continuous autofocus ... going with the Sigma MC-11 because Inês has two EF Sigma lenses which I want to try ... 🤞

nelsonic commented 5 years ago

Sigma 20mm F1.4 DG HSM Art Lens

Jason's review is specific to video continuous autofocus: https://youtu.be/5H06Ir_zOmM

Conclusion: Sony G or Seiss lenses are better for video autofocus.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sigma-20mm-F1-4-DG-HSM-Art-Lens-for-Sony-E-FE-Mount-UK-Stock-BNIB/123392534140

nelsonic commented 5 years ago

https://youtu.be/ED5FJ_FIHb4

https://youtu.be/QA06SIXRBMI

https://youtu.be/-qgcbK96_2U "super fast autofocus" using Sony A7R III

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sigma-16mm-F1-4-DC-DN-Contemporary-Lens-in-Sony-E-Fit/192387250680

Cody Blue discusses the use of APS-C (crop) Lens on a Full Frame camera: https://youtu.be/6oFRP4ZQADY

Conclusion: if you're going to invest in a full frame camera, you should invest in full frame glass.

iteles commented 5 years ago

This is the mother of all scrollable issues 😄

Good shout on the adapter :+1: You'll probably end up with a Sigma lens from all the research, but good to try it out seeing as we have access to quite a few Canon lenses.

nelsonic commented 5 years ago

https://cameradecision.com/compare/Canon-EOS-6D-Mark-II-vs-Sony-Alpha-A7-III

Perhaps it's best to consider the use-case: indoor video capture at 1080p 25fps. For that use the Canon 6D Mk II is better than the Sony because the colors are richer (less time color grading) and the Autofocus is (supposedly) faster during video recording.

7 Reasons to consider the Canon 6D MK II instead of Sony A7 III

https://youtu.be/OwMfpzix14Y

Fully articulating screen (front-facing).
Color Science is more "natural". (Sony is more "harsh" in the same lighting conditions)
Price (the canon is quite a lot cheaper and the Lenses are much cheaper too)
Highest quality lenses are cheaper on Canon. see: https://github.com/dwyl/video/issues/48#issuecomment-442136591
Video stabilisation ... (this is dubious ... but I'd say that it's irrelevant for tripod video) but he does note that Sony's "cropped" video stabilisation is good, but not
Smoother & continuous video "dual pixel" autofocus. (only relevant for moving subjects) https://youtu.be/T3YfRqGZ6C4
4k Timelapse built in. No App required. (this is unavailable on the Sony!) Sony removed the Timelapse functionality from their "free" App. see: https://photorec.tv/2018/01/sony-a7riii-a9-time-lapse-options and https://youtu.be/I0D6PM9ZZzI Yes, you can use a intervalometer to take many photos, but then you have to manually stitch them together in your video editing software. If you've ever done this manually you know how tedious it is.

Sony used to have the Time-lapse functionality in their "PlayMemories Camera App" for £7.99: Sony could easily have included this functionality in their Camera!! 😕

If you don't want to be able to do a Hyperlapse, then the Sony is "fine" ... https://youtu.be/DcylVx2ex78 seriously watch it! (decide for yourself if you "need" hyperlapse).

https://fstoppers.com/originals/eight-things-stopping-sony-a7-iii-being-perfect-camera-278341

nelsonic commented 5 years ago

Jared Polin makes it clear in this comparison that Dual Pixel VIDEO Autofocus is better on the Canon: https://youtu.be/c8gRKB3WMdg?t=442

nelsonic commented 5 years ago

This is probably the most balanced video on Why Sony for Professional photography/video: https://youtu.be/wI656MIUCsg

Sean Tucker makes a compelling case for the Sony A7 III for his use-case(s). I feel that he is ignoring the Video Autofocus and Fold-out screen because he doesn't need them.

To be clear, I have already ordered a DSLR Video Monitor #51 which I will be able to use with the 7D. So the lack of an articulated screen could be partially ignored for "at home" use. But if I was going on Holiday with the camera and wanted to capture self video, I would probably not be taking a separate screen just to be able to frame a self shot. Given that I'm not planning on going on Holiday any time soon, and I will have a tripod or gimbal #50 in Braga, I feel that the Autofocus is the last remaining feature to be considered.

nelsonic commented 5 years ago

Sony 24mm f1.4 GM vs Sigma 24mm f1.4 ART: Comparison & Review https://youtu.be/1U-hsH-lKHM

This is a good comparison. (I'm still thinking of getting the Sony GM Lens ... I might need to sell a kidney or lung for it...)

dwyl / video

Sony Mirrorless Full Frame Camera for Video #49

Why?

"Everyone should learn how to create `video` because it teaches you how to communicate"

What?