Festool Table saw TKS 80 with Saw Stop

[nelsonic]

Warning: this is obscenely expensive! 💸

Don't worry, I'm not buying this any time soon. I'm opening this issue as more of a "dream board" ... 💭

Context

We have a fairly decent table saw which I've used for a few project. The feature it doesn't have is "Saw Stop" to protect from fingers being chopped off ...

We know quite a few people 3+ who have had power tool accidents and lost tips or entire fingers. 🔪 ✋ https://www.sawstop.com/why-sawstop/accident-victims

So the question you should be axsking yourself is: "how much do you value a finger?" rather than: "how insanely expensive is that saw?!"

The Saw

From my research a full-on Saw Stop table saw starts at around $6k + shipping & import taxes etc. https://www.sawstop.com/table-saws/by-model/professional-cabinet-saw

The problem is you cannot buy the saw directly from Saw Stop, you have to go through a dealer and there basically aren't any dealers in Europe!!

Festool recently licensed the Saw Stop tech and put it in this table saw:

https://www.festool.co.uk/products/sawing/table-saw/575831---tks-80-ebs-set-gb-240v#Overview

https://www.festool.pt/produtos/serras/serra-circular-de-bancada/575828---tks-80-ebs-set#Vistageral

It's possible to find just the saw (without the accessories) for less, but it's out-of-stock: https://www.ferramentaprofissional.pt/produto/festool/Serra-circular-de-bancada-TKS-80-EBS-KT-W40

Toolfest have it and it and quite a lot cheaper than RRP: https://www.toolfest.co.uk/ this is me adding the dust collection system to the order to see how much the "full package" would cost:

I can much sooner justify spending this kind of money on a computer that will make me money ... 🧑‍💻 But at the same time I quite like my fingers ... 💭

[nelsonic]

Seriously, though watch this: https://youtu.be/C_MJt_SybrQ

[nelsonic]

New SawStop Compact Table Saw (CTS): https://www.sawstop.com/product/compact-table-saw/

Honest (not sponsored) review: https://youtu.be/TieBJVT5nBM

Sadly, this isn't coming to the EU any time soon ... I would gladly pay €1k for this saw. 💸

[nelsonic]

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/392916338518

[nelsonic]

But then when you actually try to checkout you see the following error:

[nelsonic]

@iteles could you please give me the contact details for the international removals company we used to move from LDN to PT back-in-the day as they have a Pallet forwarding service and I'd like to get a quote from them. 🙏

[nelsonic]

This product will require a Pallet Delivery Service:

[nelsonic]

OK, this is a similar price, but ships to PT [from Germany]: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/174306341843

[nelsonic]

https://www.ferramentaprofissional.pt/produto/festool/Serra-circular-de-bancada-TKS-80-EBS-KT-W40

[nelsonic]

The Festo eBay shoppe has this ex-display model for sale £1,408: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/285025507230

Yes, it's a lot of money for a tool I use occasionally. 💸 It's basically the same price as my work-work laptop that I use all day every day! 🤯

Buuuuut ... my recent experience with my Bosch Table saw ...🩸 🏥 has left me not wanting to go near another Table Saw again. 😢 Thankfully I didn't lose my thumb because I had dialed in the blade height to be 1mm above the material height, but when my thumb hit the blade it was horrific! 😭 I will spare you the details, but if you want to see photos, LMK. 😬

If I had just spent the money, totally worth it IMO, last January ... ⏳ I could have a voided 6 weeks of agonising pain and permanent physical + mental scars.

Sooooo ... I'm spending the money now. 💰 (🙄) And if I ever trigger the SawStop fail-safe int he future I will thank myself. 🙏 Fingers are worth sooooo much more than £1400; I'd say they are priceless for a musician. 💭

If anyone else were to injure themself in our workshop I would never forgive myself.

Decided to get a dedicated dust collection Vacuum Cleaner, also Festool 577410 Suction Mobile CT 15 E: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/274136081828

Cause I want everything to work seamlessly and minimise dust in the workshop (and on the build site). This is definitely an "extravagance" for a "part-time" or "hobby" carpenter. But ... making things with wood is my parallel passion project to writing code. Anyway, if you're read this far, you're very welcome to join me min make-ing stuff IRL! 👌

Will update when everything arrives and I set it all up. 📦

[nelsonic]

Sadly, [super annoyingly] the eBay seller - based in Germany - cancelled my order.

This is beyond lame. 😢

[iteles]

That's super lame 😩

These are the guys we used to move from London in 2018: https://wheelerlogistics.co.uk

This is the contact for the person Emilie use and said was really good and well priced: Joelle at JCL: +44 7935 368698

If you can agree a price with her you could get this sent to her directly.

[nelsonic]

@iteles the Festo shop only sends their products to Germany. The Wheeler Logistics is UK/Expat only. Doubt they have an address in DE. 💭

[nelsonic]

We could axsk Bea - based in Berlin - to forward the box to us. It would save us quite a few €€€’s even if the second leg of the journey DE -> PT is €100 … 💭

[iteles]

She's totally up for it but to note:

• Collectively we need to figure out which service we can use for delivery to PT because inputting info into interparcel.com for example yields no results for that size of parcel
  • She will only be in Berlin from 15th January onwards
  • We need to determine whether the seller can get it to her on a specific day so she can plan to wfh

Next step is to please confirm the size of the package so we can check for delivery services.

[nelsonic]

@iteles thanks for axsking Bea. 👍

As for delivery, would it not be wiser to get it delivered to her office ? 🏢 as she would need to WFH two days; 2️⃣ one for the initial delivery and one for subsequent collection (for forwarding) ... ⏳ Most offices we've worked at allow parcel delivery and collection from reception. 💭

As for the size of the box. 📦 While I cannot find the precise dimensions for the transport box online, we can approximate: https://www.festool.co.uk/products/sawing/table-saw/575831---tks-80-ebs-set-gb-240v#Overview

From these product dimensions, I'd estimate the outer package to be:

Package Dimensions: ~ 80cm x 70cm x 50cm

Adding 5cm of packaging for each face.

As for the weight, that's also in the tech spec:

Weight: 40kg

---

Related: I contacted a different eBay seller, also based in Germany and axsked if they can ship to PT:

Response: "Computer Says No" ...

DE:

Guten Tag,

ein Versand nach Portugal ist leider nicht möglich.

Der Artikel kann nur per Spediton versendet werden, dies würde 160 Euro kosten.

Mit freundlichem Gruß

EN:

Good day,

Shipping to Portugal is unfortunately not possible.

The article can only be sent by Spediton, this would cost 160 euros.

Sincerely

€160 ... 💸

This is insightful cause if this commercial seller isn't able to ship it to PT for less than €160, then an individual (Bea) is likely to pay a similar sort of price. 💸

It's still worth it for the price diff from buying it locally in PT ... but IDK if it's worth the hassle ... 💭 Like if I'm "only" going to save €200 in the end and it's going to be loads of effort for everyone, then I prefer to just pay more an not bother people.

[nelsonic]

Sent quote request to Wheeler Logistics:

Let's see what they get back with. ⏳ 🤞

[nelsonic]

Mini-update: it's definitely not a certainty yet cause I still need to figure out how to get it transported ... But I bid on - and won! - an auction on used but excellent condition TKS 80 based in Oxfordshire, UK.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Festool-TKS-80-EBS-portable-table-saw-240-V-circular-saw-/155340651112

So now I'm scrambling to find a reliable courier that can collect the saw and either deliver it to my Sis' house in Cambridgeshire, UK for forwarding to me/us in PT ... or I can try and get it collected and shipped directly by Wheeler (see previous comment ⬆️)

https://www.anyvan.com/instant-prices/furniture/listing-price-options

This first step courier is both expensive and reasonable at the same time. I will book it on Monday once Wheeler has replied, might call them.

[iteles]

Have Wheeler replied? Definitely try to speak to them , they might even be able to collect? Use my Uk phone to call them for free using mytello over Wi-Fi

[nelsonic]

@iteles please lend me your UK Phone when you're at your desk this morning/afternoon. Thanks.

[iteles]

From Wheeler - they said no problem and they take car of all the paperwork for us.

@nelsonic Please email them or let me know and I'll email them with the info on what is being transported, pick up and drop off address etc just as you did on the website form (which has been down for 2 months apparently): david.paterson@wheelerlogistics.co.uk

Note: They said: We would do the declarations as used goods at a Nominal value around 150 so The taxes You would pay will be minimal.

---

Here is all the additional info they sent: WHEELER REMOVAL SERVICES TO PORTUGAL

MUNDANCA PARA PORTUGAL

You are sending goods from outside the EU Border and Customs Controls,

And therefore you could be liable to pay Vat and Duty at the Portuguese

Customs. (Please see details below)

Our Company has been offering Removal services to Portugal and the

Islands since 2002, and are operating from our own purpose Built 15,000

Square Foot warehouse here in Croydon, to where any Online Purchases

Can be delivered.

With our service, we do Not send your Goods loose, so once we have collected

Your Goods, we then pack everything inside one or more of our Wooden

Removal Frames, cover, secure, completely wrap and label.

This system ensures that Your Goods are safe, secure and well

Protected, ensuring your Goods are not mixed with any other customers

Goods, and of course makes it easier for the Portuguese Customs To inspect

Or view your Goods if they wished to do so.

After we have packed everything, we will then send you a Photo by E-mail

to show how we have packed everything, and of course how your goods

will be delivered to you in Portugal.

Our Service is by Road, departing Twice Weekly, and you will be kept

Fully informed of the status of your delivery by regular E-mail Updates.

YOUR GOODS MUST BE CUSTOMS CLEARED

All Goods leaving the UK to Portugal, will be liable for Vat and Duty to

Be paid when they arrive at the Portuguese Customs ( See possible Tax

Exemption below.)

All Goods leaving the UK, must be declared to the UK Customs, by

Way of an Online declaration (EAD) and Must be Customs cleared in

Portugal by a registered Portuguese Customs Broker. Our Office in Portugal

Is also a Customs Broker who can customs clear your goods for You,

And once your Goods have been Customs Cleared they will send

You an Import DUA Document, that is proof that you have legally

Imported your Goods into Portugal from the UK

We will attend to all these Customs formalities for You.

TAX (VAT AND DUTY) EXEMPTION FOR YOUR GOODS

Tax Exemption is Only available for People Moving Permanently from

The UK to Live in Portugal.

As previously explained, all Goods leaving the UK to Portugal are

Subject to Vat and Duty, unless you can provide the correct Documents

To obtain Tax Exemption.

For Portuguese Nationals Returning Home to Live, You are able to claim Tax

Exemption, if you registered at the Portuguese Consulate when you came

To Live in the UK, and have been living in the UK for Twelve Months or more.

If so, you will be able to de-register at the Portuguese Consulate, and they

Will send You a Consular Baggage Certificate, and this document together with

Your Citizens Card and Proof of Residency, will enable the Portuguese Customs to grant You Tax Exemption. We attach a copy of a letter from our Customs Brokers in Portugal confirming this.

If You are Unable to provide the Consular Baggage Certificate but have a Citizens Card and Residency, then you can provide us with copies of Bills (Telephone, Poll Tax, Rental contracts, Work Contracts etc) that prove you have been living here in the UK for more than Twelve Months, and that the Bills have now been Terminated, and we can apply to the Portuguese Customs to obtain Tax Exemption. The decision is Not guaranteed, and is purely at the Portuguese Customs discretion.

You can of course pay the Taxes, and when you have all the correct Documents, You can then apply to the Portuguese Customs to have a refund. You will have Six Months to present these Documents.

If You are an EU National, you must have the relevant Consular Document from

Your own Countries Consulate, showing that you are moving from the UK to

Portugal, and this document together with an NIF and registration at the

Local Town Hall in Portugal, will also allow you to claim Tax Exemption.

If You are moving for work purposes, then again you must have a document

From Your Countries Consulate in the UK, showing that you are leaving the

UK to Work in Portugal, and You must also have an NIF and Residency Card.

Work Contracts, Tax etc are not of any help in obtaining Tax exemption, unless

You have the documents mentioned.

We shall require copies of these Documents.

UNABLE TO CLAIM TAX EXEMPTION

All other Portuguese Nationals, UK or EU Citizens who do not have the

Documents for tax exemption, will have to pay Vat and Duty when the

Goods arrive at the Portuguese Customs.

In these cases, you must provide a Citizens Card or NIF Number.

Both of these Documents are Proof that You are registered with the Portuguese

treasury, and with one of these Documents You can legally Import Your

Into Portugal from the UK.

If You do Not have a Citizens Card or NIF Number then

You cannot legally Import Your Goods into Portugal from the UK.

We shall require a copy of either Document.

DOCUMENTS REQUIRED

As previously mentioned, we shall complete all the Customs formalities

( Documents and Declarations for you), and apart from the copy Documents

(above) we shall require, we will just need that you complete a Packing

List and Inventory, which we shall send you with our Booking.

For all Goods, we shall do all declarations as Used Goods, at Nominal Values

And will discuss this with You at the time of your Booking, so the actual Taxes You will pay will be Nominal.

DATA PROTECTION

We do Not keep any of Your Personal details on file, after we have

Completed Your Move, and are member of the UK Government Data

Protection programme. Our Certificate is attached.

BE AWARE

Be aware that unless you have the correct documents mentioned above, then

You cannot legally import your goods into Portugal from the UK, Please remember that these are Your Own personal Goods, so of they are Not declared Correctly, or Not even declared, and found by the UK Customs or

EU Border Controls, or the Portuguese Customs, Police or Civil Guard, then You will be fined, made to the pay the Clearance of Your Goods and the Taxes, and your goods could be confiscated, so please do not be misled

YOUR GOODS

In order that we may offer you a price for Your move, all we need from

You is a list of Goods you have to move.

PROHIBITED GOODS

The law between the EU and the UK, now means that certain commodities

Are Prohibited, and cannot legally be imported into Portugal from the UK.

In some instance, if You have certain certificates some of the goods can be

Imported, but because of the delays at the Portuguese Customs with these type

Of Goods ( Inspections, paperwork etc) we can no longer accept the following

Commodities on our services to Portugal

ALCOHOL – TOBACCO – DRUGS – PLANTS – FOOD STUFFS – LIQUID SPRAYS AND

CANS – SEEDS – COSMETIC – DRIED HERBS – MEDICINES.

INSURANCE

There is some confusion over Insurance, so the simplest way to explain

It, is that in reality you should always consider taking out a Full Marine

Goods in transit policy. This Type of policy, will, for a nominal charge, offer

You full cover for the full value of your goods and removal charges, and

of course will give you complete knowledge that your goods are fully

Covered for all eventualities. If you did wish to consider this, we can send

You an Insurance proposal form, upon completion of which, our Insurers

Will contact you with a premium.

We Offer a FREE insurance cover, up to £ 100,000 for damages, which is restricted to £40.00 per Box/Item, with an excess of £ 280.00

It is Important that You understand that any self packed Fragile items, such as

Televisions, Crockery, Pictures etc are Not covered by our Free Policy

And you should look to insure this type of goods with a fully comprehensive

Insurance cover.

Please remember we do NOT send Your Goods loose, so when we pack

Everything inside our removal frame(s), your goods are safe, secure and

Well protected.

STORAGE

We offer 14 days FREE storage, which will be included in Your

Removal quote, then if you wish to store for longer we charge

£ 10.00 per removal frame per week, up to a maximum of Six weeks.

Why Not take advantage of our FREE Storage, and we can have Your

Goods in Portugal, Customs cleared, and waiting Your arrival.

MANPOWER

We can offer One, Two, Three men in both the UK and in Portugal to

Help with your move, and the charges for this will be detailed in Your

Removal quotation.

PAYING FOR YOUR MOVE

No deposit is Required.

Payment for Your Move, will be expected on the day we collect, by

Transfer to our HSBC Account, or PayPal account.

Unfortunately, we do not accept Credit Card payments.

WANT TO BOOK?

We will speak with You about which Dates you require Your Move

And then agree a Day and Time with you, and we shall then send

You our Formal Booking confirmation to confirm everything and

Send you the Packing list and Inventory we shall require that you

Complete.

We Hope that this Introduction has been of benefit but of

Course, if you do require any further information, then please

Just let us know.

We look Forward to hearing from You.

Thank You

DAVE

[nelsonic]

@iteles shame that they haven't fixed their enquiry form. 🤦‍♂️ The address for collection, is a business:

Evie Willow Ltd
120 brize norton road
Minster Lovell
Oxon
OX29 0SQ

They are open 7am - 4.30 pm Mon- Fri

Call Dan 07495 064 132 to organise collection.

[iteles]

WOWZA. I mean.... I don't even quite understand from the wording but it sounds like the €65 customs fee is ontop of the £415 removal fee 😳

By my calculations this would make it slightly more expensive or at least on a par with the new Germany one 🤦‍♀️

We can try a couple of other options like the one Emilie suggested for moving.

[nelsonic]

@iteles please check with Emilie ASAP. 🙏

[nelsonic]

Quite honestly, while this is daylight robbery, it's basically "the price" these days. 😢 #Brexit What is the alternative? we get it delivered to the Champs and they bring it over in July? ⏳

[nelsonic]

@iteles can we get the Wheeler Logistics collection booked for this week? 🙏

[iteles]

So if asked Joelle from JCL removals to give me a quote (Emilie's person) and she said she'd get back to me today. Just spoke to her and she said she's still expecting to hear back from the removals team by end of day.

She asked if we had anything tying us to the Uk like a bank account or something so they could "pretend it's a removal rather than a commercial moving of goods".

Please apologize to the guy and tell him we'll book a time today and let him know tomorrow.

Have you asked him about his availability? Like to confirm if there are any days this week and early next week they won't be available? Always a useful stall tactic.

[iteles]

Heard back from Joelle who said they're not set up for individual boxes so it would be about £2k 😂 Clearly they do one load person and don't share loads/deliveries like Wheeler do.

Please let me know when I can give wheeler logistics the go-ahead to get in touch and arrange.

[nelsonic]

@iteles please book the Wheeler Logistics collection ASAP and pass on Dan's contact details https://github.com/dwyl/learn-cad-cam-cnc/issues/53#issuecomment-1426879307 I sent him an SMS and ebay message and will report back when he replies. But the collection location is a business so is consistently open during the hours specified above.

[iteles]

Great, I've emailed Dave to confirm and ask him to organise on that end. He has the contact details and I've told him he's calling on your behalf on the eBay purchase.

I'll be providing the DWYL address for invoicing as I presume this is £415 + VAT.Not sure how the extra customs bit will work. We'll see.

[nelsonic]

Delivered: Haven’t unpacked it yet. But looks like it’s all there. 🤞🏼

[nelsonic]

Really stoked I spent the money on this. Not only is the saw itself noticeably better than the BOSCH jobsite saw - which was already decent - but it's much easier to adjust cutting sizes and overall gives me a greater sense of confidence in the cuts I'm making.

No regrets. Fingers are priceless.