Should Pirates have Nerve Gas?

[MessyMix]

Should a limited number of Pirate ships get Nerve Gas? It would be a great flavor addition for the game, and would make it harder (though still very possible) to board the occasional Pirate ship. Right now, iirc no pirate ship uses Nerve Gas, which kind of defies the point of selling Nerve Gas at all on Pirate planets (if no-one is buying it)...

I can PR this if people agree. What do you guys think?

[Lineth]

I don't think pirate ships ever attempt to capture vessels. It would actually make a neat gameplay feature if they did. This would help with that.

I'd personally say go ahead. Mostly for flavor, being as nerve gas is pretty mediocre as a capture defense.

[ReimeiSky]

Isn't nerve gas on par with laser rifles as a defensive weapon?

I think this would make it harder to capture pirate vessels, in a way: If a player's boarding attempt fails, the pirate ship will attack at a higher number of crew on the player's ship, making defense-oriented outfits necessary. [I am bad at explaining things.] Not that I'm against it, but just something I'd like to note.

[MessyMix]

@Lineth: Exactly what I had in mind. I don't want Pirate ships to be impossible to capture, but every now and then, pirate ships should have some nerve gas on board (especially the bigger ones). And, as @Bladewood has pointed out, it might make the Security Station a viable outfit.

And also, I don't think every crew member will have them on board. Only a limited amount.

[Lineth]

Lowering the security station's weight to one ton (or even a half-ton or quarter-ton if the engine supports it, which I doubt.) would go a long way towards making it worthwhile.

[ReimeiSky]

It does support rational numbers (yes, I've tested it), but we should stick to integers for the sake of gameplay, at least for outfit space. Actual weight doesn't really matter.

[endless-sky]

If pirate ships had nerve gas, you could end up being fined without even realizing you had a ship in your fleet with an illegal outfit, just because you were plundering pirates.

[ReimeiSky]

Can we at least give them laser rifles or fragmentation grenades?

[MessyMix]

It seems odd that human ships don't have hand-to-hand, especially the ships that you would most expect. I like @Bladewood's suggestion. :D

[MessyMix]

I can PR this if people agree. What do you guys think?

@KiLEdEnNis, that's enough line buffing from you this month. My turn >:D

[Amazinite]

(Or you could just have done that in the first place; one PR for one feature.)

[DingusShingleton]

Really though @endless-sky, if a player is plundering pirates to make money, isn't it kind on them to realize that... you know... pirates. Illegal stuff. Caveat emptor. If I steal a car and get busted cause it has drugs in it.... it's still my fault lol.

I mean, if the nerve gas were only placed on the biggest pirate capital ships it would mean that the capturing player had a decent net worth, such that one single fine probably wouldn't break their bank, and if anything would be like a "Oh yeah. Duh" moment for them.

But also, it doesn't matter at all. With or without nerve gas, adding some H2H onto npc ships is a cool idea.

[Tadrix]

How about adding nerve gas to pirate heavy warships (and heavy freighters and Star Queens, if applicable), laser rifles and frag. grenades to pirate medium and light warships (and Blackbirds, light freighters, and Hauler II's, if applicable), and just laser rifles to interceptors (and Star Barges and most transports, if applicable)?

In similar vein: How about adding laser rifles and frag. grenades to Rep, Syndicate and FW heavy warships (and heavy freighters and Star Queens) and just laser rifles to medium and light warships (and Blackbirds, light freighters, Hauler II's)? So far I've only seen 20 frags on Rep cruisers, which doesn't sound serious. I'd also recommend giving laser rifles to merchant heavy freighters, heavy warships and Star Queens. If their ships and cargo is so valuable, surely they would be concerned about someone trying to board them.

[Tadrix]

Nice.

Marauder interceptors would do well with frags and rifles though. (Rationale: Larger ships are more suitable to board others, they would risk getting caught with illegal items. Not interceptors, though, to whom boarding is more of a side job to warrant such risk; there would be too much nerve gas flying around otherwise.)

[Tadrix]

Sparrows board FW Falcons too

I doubt it. Plunder — sure. Attempt capture (which is where h2h becomes useful)? No way.

[MessyMix]

@KiLEdEnNis about marauder ships, that's what I was tryna hint at it by saying "especially the bigger ones". I think we can play around with fleets.txt to see what we can do with the big pirate and marauder ships. You know, if I'm a pirate and I buy a big shiny Levi to plunder, prolly gonna put some nerve on that, too, amirite? Also, what @Tadrix said seems to support my idea.

[VonZorch]

Marauder and Republic Navy ships do carry H2H outfits. @Tadrix I would reverse the order for ships to carry nerve gas. It's a bigger boost for small ships than for large ones. Also looking at it from the perspective of a pirate captain, on a small ship I know my crew and can pretty well trust them to not do something real stupid while with a large pirate crew you certainly have some unstable morons who could very easily wipe out your crew in a snit if you had nerve gas. I actually did capture a pirate ship with nerve gas once. It was version 9.4 I think or maybe 8.11, and I was attacking one of the pirate worlds for tribute. Checked it out at the outfitter and there was nerve gas and not sold here.

[Amazinite]

Republic Navy ships

A single, once thrice used Cruiser variant uses H2H outfits.

[ReimeiSky]

What about the Giftbringer?

[VonZorch]

@Amazinite I just did the FW scanning missions, every cruiser had frag grenades and laser rifles.

[Amazinite]

@VonZorch Exactly, thrice used. Two of the times are in scanning missions and the third is when you're liberating Kornephoros or something, but other than those three it's never used.

[Pointedstick]

I don't think pirate ships ever attempt to capture vessels. It would actually make a neat gameplay feature if they did. This would help with that.

https://github.com/endless-sky/endless-sky/issues/4019

[Amazinite]

It seems odd that human ships don't have hand-to-hand, especially the ships that you would most expect.

Well most ships have H2H weapons now. But as mentioned, nerve gas on a captured pirate ship would be more annoying than anything. The Marauder Fury does have a single nerve gas outfit, though.

[TheGiraffe3]

It would be annoying, but it’s a kind of important lore point. (Was going to open a new issue, never mind)