erikbroo / chengband

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[Races] removing/modifying races #79

Closed GoogleCodeExporter closed 8 years ago

GoogleCodeExporter commented 8 years ago
There are several races that mechanistically are inferior and do not contribute 
to flavor.  I propose revampong and/or removing some of these.

Races I feel strongly about modifying/removing:

Human:  Choose unique abilities at clvl 30 and 50.  List of abilities to be 
determined.

Half-Elf:  Remove.  No one ever chooses this, and it doesn't contribute to 
flavor.

Elf:  Remove.  We already have High Elf and Dark Elf, they make good contrasts 
and actually are played.

Half-Orc:  Remove.  Mechanistically too similar to Half-Ogre.  If we want to 
keep it for flavor purposes, kill Half-Ogre and give Half-orc the Half-Ogre's 
abilities.

Dark Elf:  I really like the idea of this race, but they're mechanically quite 
weak.  How about giving them an innate +20% Spell Capacity?

Imp:  Remove or merge with Balrog.  We don't have Cherub as a race, why Imp?

Golem:  As much as I like this race, it's too strong.  Remove Stone Skin 
ability.

Races I'm somewhat tempted to change/remove:

Gnome:  I don't know of anyone who plays one, so potentially remove.

Dwarf:  Merge with Nibelung or give them a new ability.

Discussion welcome!

Original issue reported on code.google.com by caltech....@gmail.com on 4 Sep 2011 at 4:35

GoogleCodeExporter commented 8 years ago
Human abilities (choose 1 at clvl 30 and 1 at clvl 50):

Fast Learner:  Gain +100% experience from all kills.

Weapon Versatility:  Can Master all weapon skills.

Subtle Casting:  1/3 chance of not triggering "Ticked Off" status with 
Offensivr Spell (evaluate separately for each monster affected)

Peerless Sniper:  2/3 chance of not triggering "Ticked Off" staus with ranged 
weapon attack.

Unyielding:  +3 HD (HP adjusted retroactively as well)

Ambidexterity:  Treated as having Genji Gloves equipped (does not stack with 
Genji Gloves)

Untouchable:  +30 AC

Loremaster:  Can *Identify* at will.

Arcane Mastery:  -5% spell fail rate for all spells (can't reduce below minimum 
from Class/stat)

Evasion:  You are never crushed by earthquakes, and thieves never successfully 
steal from you.

Potion Chugger:  You chug potions twice as fast as normal (50 energy)

One with Magic:  You have 1/2 chance of resisting Dispel Magic and Antimagic.

Original comment by caltech....@gmail.com on 4 Sep 2011 at 5:14

GoogleCodeExporter commented 8 years ago
Hm.. These are actually pretty strong.  OK, how about this?  Humans get to pick 
1 ability at clvl 40.

New race "Demigod".  10 HD, +1 all stats, good skills, -2 Stealth, +120% 
experience.  Pick abilities at clvl 30 and 50.

Original comment by caltech....@gmail.com on 4 Sep 2011 at 5:19

GoogleCodeExporter commented 8 years ago
I play each of gnomes, dwarves, imps and dark elves.

Gnomes are better than hobbits for mage folk.  Innate FA and blinking is cool 
for a blaster HM, like a Chaos HM.

Dwarves are commonly played, I think.  I'll play them for Priests, Mindcrafters 
and yes, eventually, an Axemaster!  We really can't remove Dwarves from a 
Tolkien themed game, can we?

I've played Imp monks before.

Dark Elves now have Magic Missile at CL1 for 1sp.  This is very useful for 
characters that can't otherwise get started.  This race would be more 
attractive without the penalty to Con.

Humans: -50%xp.  See if that draws any players :D  Actually, if you look on the 
Hengband World Scores for Japanese, I think Human was the most popular race!  
Why?

Half Elves and Orcs ... I see your point.

Elves.  There was a lot of complaints when High Elves were first added that 
nobody would play elves or half elves any more.  Perhaps that was justified ...

Golems.  OK, I can see removing Stone Skin.  This is a race I rarely play 
(though I play it more than Imps!) simply because -5 Int,Wis precludes any form 
of spellcaster.  If we didn't have weaponmasters, they'd only be good for 
Warriors, Berserkers and an occasional Ninja.  Though I've heard rumors they 
are OK for Magic Eaters, I believe these rumors to be false!

Just my 2 cents on your first comment.  I haven't read the rest :)

Original comment by ckou...@gmail.com on 4 Sep 2011 at 1:24

GoogleCodeExporter commented 8 years ago
Oh, I didn't mean to remove Dwarves, I meant to give them a new ability so 
they're competitive with Nibelung (the Dark Dwarves).

Haha, Golems are also good for Duelists, Blood Knights, and Warlocks.  Hm, my 
race preference might be guiding my Class design just a wee bit...

Original comment by caltech....@gmail.com on 4 Sep 2011 at 4:03

GoogleCodeExporter commented 8 years ago
Dwarves get Treasure Detection?  Enhanced digging?

How about we replace Half Orcs with Snotlings (as a joke race, of course) :)

Original comment by ckou...@gmail.com on 4 Sep 2011 at 4:25

GoogleCodeExporter commented 8 years ago
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GoogleCodeExporter commented 8 years ago
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GoogleCodeExporter commented 8 years ago
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GoogleCodeExporter commented 8 years ago
Well, I pretty much never dig for money or use Treasure Detection, so you'll 
have to judge how valuable that is.  Oh, I know, how about +30% carrying 
capacity until Speed Reduction?  In D&D3.5, Dwarves get to carry heavy load 
without being slowed (though they're slower to start with).

(BTW, you should take a look at the human abilities and Demigod race I listed 
in an earlier comment here.. I quite like them.)

Ha!  I love it.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snotling

LOL, I didn't realize Orcs used Snotlings as food and cannon ammunition!  There 
is so much we could do with this.

Snotling, -1 STR, -1 CON, -1 DEX, -3 INT, -2 WIS, -2 CHA.  8 HD.  

Snotling Abilities:

Devour Own Flesh (active) - Satisfies hunger, but take 50% MaxHP damage and 
gain Severe Cut.

Bullied (passive) - Every time you are attacked (melee, ranged, or spell), you 
must make a save or be in Fear.

Recoil (passive) - Whenever you fire a missile weapon, you are pushed 1 square 
back in the opposite direction.  If you would be pushed into a wall, you take 
damage instead.

Mushroom Wielder (passive) - Can equip Mushrooms and Broken Sticks as weapons 
(does 1d1 damage).

Mushroom Addict (passive) - Eating any Mushroom gives +10 speed, Stone Skin, 
Heroism, and +3 STR, DEX, CON, INT, WIS, CHA for X+dX turns (where X is native 
level of mushroom), in addition to normal mushroom effects.

Original comment by caltech....@gmail.com on 4 Sep 2011 at 4:58

GoogleCodeExporter commented 8 years ago
One last Snotling ability!

Treasured Mushroom (passive) - You can read a ?oArtifactCreation on a mushroom 
to make it `The Eternal Mushroom of xxx` (where xxx is whatever you used it on, 
presumably Restoring).  If you eat the Eternal Mushroom, it going into 
`(charging)` for 100 rounds, and then becomes available for eating again!

Original comment by caltech....@gmail.com on 4 Sep 2011 at 5:07

GoogleCodeExporter commented 8 years ago
I'm working on new human abilities, trying to think of a way to hack these to 
work, and decided to go with making them mutations since this will handle most 
of what I need.

Issues:
[1] I can make them 0 probability mutations so that only humans can get them.
[2] I can make them low probability mutations so that other classes can get 
them.
[3] Any thoughts on new mutation ideas, or is there another issue someplace 
that I haven't gotten to yet ;)

Original comment by ckou...@gmail.com on 24 Nov 2011 at 3:19

GoogleCodeExporter commented 8 years ago
I'd rather these be probability 0 mutations, as I do feel that the current 
mutation system is too easily exploitable.  In a separate thread, I think we 
discussed adding a whole bunch more bad mutations to make mutation scumming a 
bit harder.  Maybe !oPolymorph should bias towards good mutations, while Chaos 
and Poison should bias towards bad ones?

Original comment by caltech....@gmail.com on 24 Nov 2011 at 4:40

GoogleCodeExporter commented 8 years ago
Right, Issue 14 is the other place we discuss mutations.

Original comment by caltech....@gmail.com on 24 Nov 2011 at 4:46

GoogleCodeExporter commented 8 years ago
OK.  So, I should replace Elves with the Demigod race then?  These new 
abilities seem really cool, but I'll be damned if I'm gonna play a human!

:)

Original comment by ckou...@gmail.com on 24 Nov 2011 at 5:07

GoogleCodeExporter commented 8 years ago
Sure.  Actually, I'm finding new appreciation for fast-leveling races via the 
Warlock class.  

Maybe Fast Learner should be +50% exp instead of +100%?  I don't want Demigods 
who pick Fast Learner to be strictly superior to Humans...

Original comment by caltech....@gmail.com on 24 Nov 2011 at 5:54

GoogleCodeExporter commented 8 years ago
One more thought.  Clvl 40 is pretty late, and a lot of these abilities will be 
less useful by then.  Let's do this instead:

Human:  Ability at clvl 30.

Demigod:  Abilities at clvl 20 and clvl 40.

Original comment by caltech....@gmail.com on 24 Nov 2011 at 7:33

GoogleCodeExporter commented 8 years ago
Done for now.  I'll start a new thread if I have more ideas.

Original comment by caltech....@gmail.com on 28 Nov 2011 at 8:12