Move from WTFPL to a less permissive license?

[maandree]

Ponysay is now more than just a wrapper and artwork collection.

It is now a cowsay-like program that is very advanced. (7 pages on how to use it and 3 pages on the important stuff of how it works, any many more pages for other stuff.) Compared to cowsay it is a full blown enterprise project.

I therefore suggest we change the license to GNU GPL v3 (or some other less permissive license, instead of WTFPL, if everypony is on board.

[etu]

I must say that I like GPL v3, som I'm all for it.

[JotaRandom]

Personaly I preffer BSD-likes and GPLv2.0 (call me linux-thinking if you want) I think this thinking in the original source of many of the pony, browser and desktop pony I think that we need a licence that allow "link" or "use" allongside another restrictive licence

[maandree]

I do not like BSD and MIT, but can go with GPLv2, but what makes GPLv2 preferable over GPLv3, the only difference I know of (I am not well read on GPLv2) is that GPLv3 does not allow tivoisation?

[JotaRandom]

At I underestand you are right w tivoisation (this is why Linux not change gpl2 for 2.1 or 3.0 (binary blobs using other licences you know)

[erkin]

I'm for GPL but I highly doubt a proprietary software project would want to include ponysay in itself. Besides, GPL may drive away some anti-GPL Linux users.

On another note, I prefer GPLv3 over GPLv2. I also doubt there will be a tivoisation incident with this but we have no reason to use GPLv2 over GPLv3.

[JotaRandom]

probably the hasbro/desktop-browser pony ownership of mlp names images, art or chars can (orr cannot) give problems in future if we not use a license that allow blobs other is speccify what is the license of what component

but this can transform in the endeless history of what license is best ..........

[erkin]

We can just license it under (L)GPL and exclude the pony files (names and concepts) as "copyrights belong to their respective owners [...] Hasbro™" or something similar.

[JotaRandom]

yep probably is best it, but you are sure that using (L)GPL not give problem using the pony files as a "blob" ( note it the ""), If you are 100% sure, I agree and proced And as I know the extraponies (they images and probably images+names (the comvination of both in a same pony file) are not ptoperty of hasbro or they lost they rights (I think is sure puth them under the same as the ponysay.py)

[maandree]

Should we use GNU GPL v2? If I remember correctly v3 does not allow blobs but v2 does.

[JotaRandom]

GPLv1, GPLv2, MIT, BSD as far as I know are the only one that "support" blobs the others GPL and all LGPL not allow them

but now i we want use GPL1 or 2?? if we switch to gpl but for me the GPLv2 is fine...we maybe use GPL2-only or GPL2 or more???

[erkin]

GPLv1 is very outdated and nobody ever uses it since 1990. Also, these don't count as blobs. They contain licensed material for sure but they aren't closed source or anything. Besides, GPL does allow blobs. See Linux kernel for example.

[JotaRandom]

licences never are outdated, only are old and nopony use, this is diferent as outdated

the linux-kernel use GPL2 (only) and is right, allow blobs, as far I know all GPL-LGPL 2.1 or high not allow blobs but exist many others licences that allow blobs and are GPL-compatible

we not need to limitating to tose two for example I not sure if ArtisticLicense2.0 or CeCILL-A or CC0 can by used alongside other licences (desktop ponies)

[JotaRandom]

not sure but I read that desktop/browser ponies licence isnot compatible with any (L)GLP licence if this is true, wee need thing in another different licence

any underestand best english/havve more knowledge for clarify it??

[maandree]

Desktop/browser ponies cannot be commercially redistributed and is therefore incompatible with GPL. I'm not sure, but I think we can use GPL.

With a GNU/Linux (not Linux-libre) operating system you can sometimes choice to install proprietary software, when you install the OS; this is because the proprietary software is not a part of the OS. I think we can have ponysay GPL licensed and offer to install non-free ponies, because they are independent of ponysay.

The following combination should work: A GNU License for the code. GNU All Permissive License for the collection of ponies, or any license, but I prefer a lax license for this Independently licenses ponies.

[JotaRandom]

ok but this limites we to nothing more than v2 for GPL, for compatibility with other licences (desktop/browser ponies)

PD. Not sure if is important but the desktopponies website is dawn from 2 month and I not se any activity related to continue the proyect....you know anithing?

[maandree]

No, I don't follow desktop ponies.

[JotaRandom]

if the case that gpl2.1+ not compatible with desktop/browser ponies, probably the gpl2 or bsd or cc0 can by used but in case that gpl in any version not compatible this is Desktop Ponies v1.41.2.14same as say that wee need consider apend to the wtfpl or any bsd-like

PD: desktop ponies not see they project leader since many time (around july-aug), but the others dev release a unoficial 1.41.2.14 in nov9

[JotaRandom]

Udate about desktop ponies concerned to licence: the READMe say this: "... (not affiliated with Hasbro in any way, all of the art has been either created by others, or, in the case of the original Derpy images, from Derpy Delivery: http://www.hamalonesandwich.com/derpydelivery/#l
A lot of the animations have been done by Jay Wright) ... ... I don't make any of the art for the ponies. All of it is made by the community and shared, usually on Ponychan. You can use .png, .jpg, and animated .gifs for art! "

In my underestand this mean that the images arenot part of the cc-bla-bla but the engine is... .... ...

[maandree]

I have read on deviant art (or what it is called) that the images car cc-nc-...

[JotaRandom]

Aparently all indicate that we have 2 options: 1- Move to a licence and mention specificaly enough clear that is the licence of what piece of the program, and what is for the other 2- Use a complete compatible licence againt all the types of other possible (like the cc-sa, cc-nc-sa, etc) pro prevent problems

and is deviantart (is one word, same as the website name) EDIT: Spellos, and clarifications

[dos1]

You're confusing two totally different things. Non-free graphical assets, sounds etc. are not code - therefore they doesn't affect GPL at all. You cannot link GPL code with closed code, but artwork is not a code.

Your license for your code is totally independent of used artwork files. They can be on whichever license you (or their authors) want as long as you have rights to redistribute them.

There's no difference between GPLv2, GPLv3 nor BSD regarding artwork. There are differences with code:

• with BSD, someone can take your code and build anything he wants with it, even closed proprietary projects (as long as he mentions you as original authors)
• with GPLv2 it's like BSD, except of closed projects - derivative work has to be licensed on GPL-compatible license
• with GPLv3 it's like GPLv2, but with added one thing - one cannot use your project in some embedded firmware without ability to reflash it with user's own version. Imagine mobile phone with ponysay included - if ponysay is GPLv3, then distributor of that mobile phone has to provide some way to replace included ponysay with self-compiled version. As someone said already, this practice of closing down open things is called tivoisation and is a big issue in embedded systems, as users without ability to reflash their devices cannot benefit from freedom GPL gives them.

I hope it's all clear now. There was a bit of wrong information in this thread and I found it via Google somehow, so even if this comment is not useful for you, then it might be for someone who lands here from some search engine ;)

[maandree]

The have resolved the confusion, but this issue is not updated. Sorry that you needed to take your time writting this, but it is a nice clearification if somepony needs it.

[And know that I ahve read the last one, I hope so to, it is the most clear explication I have seen.]

[JotaRandom]

Actually the artwork is converted as a .pony file that can be edited in ponysay-tool or from a normal text editor (in theory is possible write a .pony file from scratch but is a tedious horrible job) and this is I have problem, these .ponyfile (that in X11 can be read as a simple 'less -r') remain as artwork

and Desktop ponies say that anypony can use they ponies (or either modify them) if give they the credits and not sale them..they say it many times

[dos1]

Storing artwork in text format does not automatically make it a source code. Even more - there are situations where artwork is actually a source code (for instance SVG - it can be read and written with just plain text editor, and it's not just representation of bitmap - it's a recipe for drawing one), but it's still not computer program code, therefore computer program licenses are not applicable.

(of course you can apply computer program licenses like GPL on artwork, movies, songs etc., noone stops you, but that won't really make sense)

And you don't link your code with your artwork anyway, so GPL "infection" is not the case here.

[maandree]

I have made a relicensing suggestion, in the branch relicensing, GNU GPLv3+ instead of WFTPL, with a notice that some pictures must be removed when redistributing commercially.

Comments? Ready for mergin into develop?

[JotaRandom]

I preffer the GPLv2 but me, if none more going againt it I can be Ok whit this

[maandree]

I prefer GPLv3 over GPLv2, and etu likes GPLv3 and has not commented on GPLv2, nopony else has commented on this, so they are tied with mention advantage for GPLv3. So it would be nice if everypony casts a vote for either v2 or v3.

[JotaRandom]

open vote ok GPL-2 : 1 this for of vote right??

[maandree]

Yepp, and for the record: GPLv3 :+1:

[maandree]

Based on erkin's and etu's firsts comments I am guessing that they prefer we use GPLv3,

@erkin @etu I will merge the relicening and the develop branch into master as soon as issue #106 is completed, so if you rather we use GPLv2, please add a vote.

[maandree]

Change applied to develop branch.