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Project Management: Meeting notes and agenda items
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EIP-2537 Breakout Call #1176

Open timbeiko opened 1 month ago

timbeiko commented 1 month ago

Meeting Info

Agenda

ralexstokes commented 1 month ago

AIUI there is question of how to price the MSM precompiles given the fact that the MSM computation assumes parallel computation via multiple cores. This raises the question of how to do proper benchmarking as we don't have a multicore machine model for EVM execution.

After some discussion with Barnabus, Kev, and Ansgar, I would propose we assume a machine with 4 cores to use for MSM computation and use this to determine correct gas pricing.

chfast commented 1 month ago

After some discussion with Barnabus, Kev, and Ansgar, I would propose we assume a machine with 4 cores to use for MSM computation and use this to determine correct gas pricing.

We (evmone/Silkworm) will not use multi-threaded execution, at least not initially. We don't want to ship a thread-pool with a precompile. We will benchmark what we have to see if this causes any serious issues so you can decide to do otherwise. However, geth has been rather against multi-threaded execution too (@jwasinger).

jwasinger commented 1 month ago

I would like to propose that we consider reducing the price of the non-msm precompiles as well. I am using Geth's ecrecover precompile performance as a baseline here, to come up with a repricing that would be appropriate for us.

Based on my benchmarks of all the precompiles in Geth/Gnark on presumed worst-case inputs, I have come up with the following precompile-to-ecrecover performance ratios on the machines that I ran benchmarks on:

g1add:
        mbp m2: 2.74
        xeon8280: 2.03
g1mul:
        mbp m2: 1.512
        xeon8280: 1.43
g2add:
        mbp m2: 2.268
        xeon8280: 2.0313
g2mul:
        mbp m2: 2.29921
        xeon8280: 2.77
mapfp:
        mbp m2: 1.669
        xeon8280: 1.548
mapfp2:
        mbp m2: 4.2205
        xeon8280: 5.262
pairing (8 pairs):
        mbp m2: 1.732
        xeon8280: 2.3022

Based on this, I would suggest reducing the precompiles by multiplying the current costs by the following factors:

g1add: 0.5
g1mul: 0.7
g2add: 0.5
g2mul: 0.5
mapfp: 0.55
mapfp2: 0.25

This is just food for a thought, but if we are going to reprice MSM we should consider repricing all the precompiles that have static cost models as well.

jwasinger commented 1 month ago

However, geth has been rather against multi-threaded execution too (@jwasinger).

We are against basing the cost model off of multi-threaded execution, but Geth will use multiple threads when running these precompiles in production.

chfast commented 1 month ago

My list of questions for the call.

  1. What is the benchmark baseline? ECRECOVER?
  2. What is the range for MSM to analyze? We used 256 points. Can other implementations provide timings for such range?
  3. What is the worst case benchmark for MUL?
  4. What is the worst case benchmark for MSM?
  5. What are the libraries used for implementations? Which clients use which library?
  6. What is the relative cost of the subgroup check in MUL?
  7. What is the relative performance improvement of endomorphism in MUL?
chfast commented 1 month ago

Let's also discuss this spec flaw: https://ethereum-magicians.org/t/eip-2537-bls12-precompile-discussion-thread/4187/85.

mratsim commented 1 month ago

My gas repricing notes: https://ethereum-magicians.org/t/eip-2537-bls12-precompile-discussion-thread/4187/73?u=mratsim

poojaranjan commented 1 month ago

Recording: https://youtu.be/zUIogzxkTpc