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Working group on #argofloats recovery
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Floats recovery draft papers #3

Open coriolisdeploiement opened 4 years ago

coriolisdeploiement commented 4 years ago

Attached papers on flots recovery studies Recovering Argo Floats - N.Poffa - M.Amice.docx

EdLeymarie commented 4 years ago

Hello,

Thank you for this very interesting contribution.

For practical tools, I have in mind an application, preferably on a phone to use the phone's GPS. Because for me, some of the difficulties include the speed at which the new position is entered into the boat's GPS (including time for the transmission of the float position from the float to the operator on the boat) and the risk of error between the different position formats (unfortunately a very common error).

Ideally, this application should be able to do :

Best

Edouard

coriolisdeploiement commented 4 years ago

Le 01/07/2020 à 13:35, dortenzio a écrit :

voilà le doc sur les recups des BGC qu’on a discuté ensemble, et sur le quel on a travaillé ces dernières temps au LOV. Il s’agit d’un doc qui cherche d’être « généraliste » mais qui est, forcement, focused sur notre retour d’experience NAOS. On l’a surtout imaginé comme document de travail qui pourra ensuite être enrichis par les experiences du meme type des autres groups. On espère aussi qu'il puisse inspirer une activité recup plus vaste et, pourquoi pas, que il puisse aboutir à un papier « tecnique » si on arrive à collecter un réseau assez large (actuellement, il n’y a que la partie NAOS mais qui a été dejà publiée sur au moins 2 papers et qui est aussi décrite dans la paper NAOS qui vient d’etre soumis).

Maintenant, il faut voir comme on le diffuse.

Sylvie, à l’époque, tu parlais d’une distribution à l’échelle de l’ERIC. Sous quelle forme tu pensais? à travers un site web/un ftp/une mail list?? comment on peut aussi le rendre ameliorable à fur et à mesure (sans passer par un google doc)??

SustainabilityNAOS_30_Jun-2.docx

Alberto-GS commented 4 years ago

Hi,

thanks for all the information provided.

I was not awared of this since I joined the office on July 2020 but this is actually great news. Accidentaly or not, I took part in the Ocean Hackathon 2020 proposing to find new approaches for the Argo float recoveries. Please find attached the PowerPoint if you are interested. Documents provided by N.Poffa & M.Amice and NAOS are very completed though.

I join this issue.

ArgoRecovery.pptx

coriolisdeploiement commented 3 years ago

Thanks for sharing Alberto ! Any outcome from the Hackathon ?

Alberto-GS commented 3 years ago

Unfortunatelly no outcomes @coriolisdeploiement Many registered attendees didn't come to the Hackathon due to the pandemic. The remaining attendees had to be reassigned between the different proposals and there weren't actually no one with programming skills/background. We only reached a theoretical approach...

Perhaps at some point we could organize a group for people interested in this task.

Martin-ifr commented 3 years ago

Hi Alberto, Just read your ppt presentation. Very interesting. We reach mostly the same conclusions. We should discuss it once I'm settled in Tenerife ! Martin

Alberto-GS commented 3 years ago

Hi all,

I just started the Good Practices document as we agreed. All the info included is not definitive. I'll keep writing but, since this is a collaborative document, feel free to add any paragraph/image/information/suggestion.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Muk8sluN2cx2uRddoVmFrrjac8N3rwSG5OBjMBumPTI/edit#

All the best, Alberto.

Alberto-GS commented 3 years ago

I guess most of you have read the famous Environmental Issues and the Argo Array document. For the 'good practices doc', perhaps it will be a good idea to carefully read it and learn from it. We need figures and numbers to support potential arguments.

Argo_Environmental_Impact.2020.05.10.pdf

Alberto.

Alberto-GS commented 3 years ago

Hi all,

I just started the Good Practices document as we agreed. All the info included is not definitive. I'll keep writing but, since this is a collaborative document, feel free to add any paragraph/image/information/suggestion.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Muk8sluN2cx2uRddoVmFrrjac8N3rwSG5OBjMBumPTI/edit#

All the best, Alberto.

Hi guys, Regarding this Best Practices draft document, I think including calculations and figures is necessary. In order to demonstrate recoveries are affordable in the ocean, it could be great to make a small study.

I think crossing data of oceanographic cruises, pleasure vessels, fishing vessels and sailing races VS the position of floats that were close to their end of life in 2020 or 2019, would give us a rough idea of the viability of the recoveries in the open ocean. Same procedure for marginal seas and EEZ areas. Do you have a professional Marine Traffic account?

Alberto.

coriolisdeploiement commented 3 years ago

Hi Alberto, I have started adding stuff in the gdoc. I am trying a chapter on the Med case study but maybe that should go as an annex instead, will see.. Marine Traffic no we don't have, even at Fleet management level in Ifremer they don't.. I am not sure however that would be so helpful to make a study on historical data as they provide more an operational service. Have you tried the free trial (7 days) to evaluate it ? It would be surely useful on the other hand for operational use, I have asked OceanOPS to plug in an AIS tool in their system but it is out of the question (too expensive) for them so far.. We are working on a small web interface for recoveries at the moment,more news soon I hope ! It woud have been great to have AIS data on it but if we first can manage to have the Ifremer vessel realtime data, it is a first step. Great work you did anyway, thanks for starting the doc, I am hoping to get more time to work on it in the weeks to come. Noé

Le ven. 21 mai 2021 à 10:44, Alberto-GS @.***> a écrit :

Hi all,

I just started the Good Practices document as we agreed. All the info included is not definitive. I'll keep writing but, since this is a collaborative document, feel free to add any paragraph/image/information/suggestion.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Muk8sluN2cx2uRddoVmFrrjac8N3rwSG5OBjMBumPTI/edit#

All the best, Alberto.

Hi guys, Regarding this Best Practices draft document, I think including calculations and figures is necessary. In order to demonstrate recoveries are affordable in the ocean, it could be great to make a small study.

I think crossing data of oceanographic cruises, pleasure vessels, fishing vessels and sailing races VS the position of floats that were close to their end of life in 2020 or 2019, would give us a rough idea of the viability of the recoveries in the open ocean. Same procedure for marginal seas and EEZ areas. Do you have a professional Marine Traffic account?

Alberto.

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EdLeymarie commented 3 years ago

Hello to all, Thanks for the nice work on this doc !

RomainCancouet commented 3 years ago

Hi all, Well done for this very interesting document! I have added some comments I hope that helps. Concerning the sensors topics: to better capture which floats should be tagged as valuable (understanding of issues, stability, post calibration etc.) to recover, we may consider interacting with the science / data teams? And with the manufacturers as well to get information on storage conditions etc. for their investigations, post calibrations, etc.?

Alberto-GS commented 3 years ago

Hi Alberto, I have started adding stuff in the gdoc. I am trying a chapter on the Med case study but maybe that should go as an annex instead, will see.. Marine Traffic no we don't have, even at Fleet management level in Ifremer they don't.. I am not sure however that would be so helpful to make a study on historical data as they provide more an operational service. Have you tried the free trial (7 days) to evaluate it ? It would be surely useful on the other hand for operational use, I have asked OceanOPS to plug in an AIS tool in their system but it is out of the question (too expensive) for them so far.. We are working on a small web interface for recoveries at the moment,more news soon I hope ! It woud have been great to have AIS data on it but if we first can manage to have the Ifremer vessel realtime data, it is a first step. Great work you did anyway, thanks for starting the doc, I am hoping to get more time to work on it in the weeks to come. Noé

Noé, thanks for your feedback. Regarding your question about if making a study on historical data is worthy, I just thought it was a good idea to gather arguments if we are going to request funds. I mean, having solid information on data to prove recovery of Argo floats is worthy. By crossing vessels (fishing boats, yachts, pleasure boats, sailboats, racing sailboats and of course, oceanographic vessels) trajectory data and Argo location data, we can get a certain number of interactions. I'll take care of this if you guys see it as a good idea. If not, I will focus my efforts on continuing to write the draft document.

Through making some calculations we can demonstrate:

This request for AIS data is for this study in the open ocean; the Mediterranean Sea continues to be our main stage to develop the pilot project as we agreed in the meeting. For now, as we have discussed before, including AIS may not be necessary, although I fully agree with you that it is suitable for fully operational use. I just checked your suggestion https://www.marinetraffic.com/en/online-services/plans/comparison-list and maybe the 7-days free of the Global version is enough to get the vessel's positions. Anyway, I'll make a request, just to have a reference. Good luck with that web interface, it sounds great! If you can pass any screenshots, it would be perfect.

Alberto-GS commented 3 years ago

Hi Edouard,

* I think that we could insist a little more on the recoveries already made very frequently in closed seas like the Mediterranean, the Baffin Bay or the Baltic Sea (there are surely others?).

Exactly, the Mediterranean Sea continues to be our main stage to develop the pilot project as we agreed in the meeting. This study in the open ocean is just to fill section 3.1 and it does not mean that we deviate from the main plan: Do a pilot project in the Mediterranean Sea. 

* For the recovery objectives: sensor calibration, refitting and depollution are explained but I think that they do not use the same recovery means. For the first two, you need to be trained to recover floats in good conditions while for the third one it is much more open.
  I will try to make proposals in this sense.
  Best

Thanks!

Alberto-GS commented 3 years ago

Hi all, Well done for this very interesting document! I have added some comments I hope that helps. Concerning the sensors topics: to better capture which floats should be tagged as valuable (understanding of issues, stability, post calibration etc.) to recover, we may consider interacting with the science / data teams? And with the manufacturers as well to get information on storage conditions etc. for their investigations, post calibrations, etc.?

Thanks, Romain! If I understood you well, I would say yes. Anyway, can you develop this idea a little bit more? I would say that, after consultation with the science / data teams and manufacturers, you can put priority flags that give importance to the floats (something similar to what Noe has done in the google sheet). It may not be as important to pick up a standard buoy that has an oxygen sensor compared to a BGC or Deep. Is that what you wanted to say or did I misunderstand you?