Find a ticketing company

[pagojo]

Criteria

1. 1st-class support
2. Cost-effective or free (as in beer) cost
3. Can handle the load
4. ??

[vvatikiotis]

is it final that Eventora is handling the tickets? If yes, we could meet at Demokritos where they 're based. I can setup it up at our convenience since I'm currently based there as well.

[nikosd]

The issue from my point of view should be to investigate ticketing services and come up with a proposal to the committee in order to aprove it.

On Thu, Nov 22, 2012 at 6:22 PM, Vassilis Vatikiotis < notifications@github.com> wrote:

is it final that Eventora is handling the tickets? If yes, we could meet at Demokritos where they 're based. I can setup it up at our convenience since I'm currently based there as well.

— Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHubhttps://github.com/euruko2013/committee/issues/46#issuecomment-10639209.

[pagojo]

@nikosd sure, do we know of another local ticketing company? Or are we going to look outside the GR taxman jurisdiction?

I suggested Eventora because they are based locally and because Katerina, Sissy and Marian have used them before. I don't know them myself, but I've heard from Katerina as well as from Sissy and Marian that they are fine.

[nikosd]

No objection to use Eventora, from me it's a +1 if they are locals but I would like a research & comparison before selecting someone. Right?

On Thu, Nov 22, 2012 at 6:30 PM, pagojo notifications@github.com wrote:

@nikosd https://github.com/nikosd sure, do we know of another local ticketing company? Or are we going to look outside the GR taxman jurisdiction?

I suggested Eventora because they are based locally and because Katerina, Sissy and Marian have used them before. I don't know them myself, but I've heard from Katerina as well as from Sissy and Marian that they are fine.

— Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHubhttps://github.com/euruko2013/committee/issues/46#issuecomment-10639432.

[vvatikiotis]

Additionally, but of lesser importance to euruko, they are a greek startup and they can use the business/publicity.

[vvatikiotis]

@nikosd definitely!

[fotos]

I'm ok with promoting a couple of robust and professional local startups. But I'd want some guarantees first. Some rough (since I'm still at work) thoughts are: that they can handle the load, have 1st class support, easy UX to book, etc. These criteria are generic enough and should be evaluated for all potential ticketing partners, whether a business is Greek or not. I'm OK with giving them a chance to convince us that they can handle it but at the same time I'd be looking for other alternatives as well. Compare and conquer (c) fotos.

So state your criteria and make your proposals and stop taking for granted the selection of given companies. It would be more wise and appropriate to ask for some confirmation first.

I'm changing the subject from "Liason with Eventore" (when the heck did we make such a decision FFS?), to find a "Ticketing company".

-fotos

On Thu, Nov 22, 2012 at 6:33 PM, Vassilis Vatikiotis < notifications@github.com> wrote:

@nikosd https://github.com/nikosd definitely!

— Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHubhttps://github.com/euruko2013/committee/issues/46#issuecomment-10639545.

[pagojo]

I took Katerina's, Sissy's and Marian's recommendation as a positive endorsement. Sorry if I sounded assertive.

Who wamts to handle this investigation then?

[nikosd]

Two suggestions, one strong and one soft (respectively) :

a) Tweet it (through the euruko/eurukoathens) account and ask for recommendations, aka i) crowdsource it and ii) maybe companies will approach us directly b) Ask a volunteer from the public repo mailing to do a research (in async time) to do the preliminary research and gather links, core specs etc. There are a lot of people who are willing to volunteer (I know 2 or three friends from work) so why not try it? If nothing comes in 1 week, we start doing it ourselves.

How does these suggestions sound to you?

On Thu, Nov 22, 2012 at 6:53 PM, pagojo notifications@github.com wrote:

I took Katerina's, Sissy's and Marian's recommendation as a positive endorsement. Sorry if I sounded assertive.

Who wamts to handle this investigation then?

— Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHubhttps://github.com/euruko2013/committee/issues/46#issuecomment-10640061.

[damphyr]

I'm for supporting eventora but we follow the rule of three, so we should look at two other alternatives if possible. The previous two Euruko's went through Amiando, so we know they can handle the load.

[pagojo]

I think we're making this more work that it should (considering the proximity and refs for Eventora) but let's since people have strong feelings. What I don't see is volunteers to pick up this task though so I started asking for help as @nikosd suggested:-/

[apantsiop]

There are not many people watching github. I think we should cross post to twitter or hellug as well. On Nov 22, 2012 10:35 PM, "pagojo" notifications@github.com wrote:

I think we're making this more work that it should (considering the proximity and refs for Eventora) but let's since people have strong feelings. What I don't see is volunteers to pick up this task though so I started asking for help as @nikosd https://github.com/nikosdsuggested:-/

— Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHubhttps://github.com/euruko2013/committee/issues/46#issuecomment-10644463.

[nikosd]

Let's see how this will work out :)

On Thu, Nov 22, 2012 at 10:37 PM, Apostolos Pantsiopoulos < notifications@github.com> wrote:

There are not many people watching github. I think we should cross post to twitter or hellug as well. On Nov 22, 2012 10:35 PM, "pagojo" notifications@github.com wrote:

I think we're making this more work that it should (considering the proximity and refs for Eventora) but let's since people have strong feelings. What I don't see is volunteers to pick up this task though so I started asking for help as @nikosd https://github.com/nikosdsuggested:-/

— Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub< https://github.com/euruko2013/committee/issues/46#issuecomment-10644463>.

— Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHubhttps://github.com/euruko2013/committee/issues/46#issuecomment-10644504.

[pagojo]

this makes an interesting feature list btw

[vvatikiotis]

@pagojo I'm clueless about their business but I'm impressed!

[fotos]

In favor of Eventora: they handled the tickets for the upcoming TEDxAthens.

[pagojo]

...funny how sudently you arrive at my original suggestion...funny huh ?;-)

So far only Eventora have aswered to our tweets :-(

[vvatikiotis]

It's Sunday morning and you are having again your delusions of grandeur :D Go read about the fallacy of silent evidence and finish your coffee.

[pagojo]

You should be making my coffee minion not be dissing me... Grandeur, what grandeur?! LOL

[pagojo]

btw on a serious note, are we ok if @vvatikiotis sets up a meeting with Eventora?

[fotos]

Haha, I love argumentum e silentio! :)

[vvatikiotis]

I've arranged a meeting with Eventora on Tuesday. In the meantime I'm looking for companies and I'll have a 1st draft of features we are interested in for our first meeting.

[vvatikiotis]

Working on https://docs.google.com/a/euruko2013.org/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Avfy7Znze_DzdDRsRFNoSkZGUk1IZ0pBX28xMHhEbXc#gid=0

[vvatikiotis]

comments are on, edit permissions are off

[vvatikiotis]

You can all see the doc right? @fotos ?

I've had the meeting with Nikos Tsamis from Eventora. I'll write down what I learned

[vvatikiotis]

Eventora meeting 18/12/2012 minutes

Track record

• TedxAthens 1500 checkins
• Panorama Επιχειρηματικοτητας, Μεγαρο, April, 2200 check-ins
• TedxThess 800.
• MeetGreece (700+700)
• Αριστεια Υπ.Παιδ. + ΙΤΥ
• MIT alumni Greece
• Greek AWS user group
• Open Coffee Thess
• The EORA app is in the TedxGlobal marketplace
• Scientific events I didn't jot down.

They seem to have very good traction and can handle the load.

Payments

• 2% + (2% || 3.4% + 0.35EUR). That's 2%/ ticket for eventora(EORA) plus 2%/ticket when a credit card is used plus 3.4%/ticket + 0.35EUR when Paypal is included. Paypal's rates are higher in Europe but it offers integration with CCs not that common in Greece e.g. American Express.
• EORA uses Peireus Bank as their CC clearance backend. So when someone buys a ticket using a CC EORA's system directs her to Peireus Bank page for the payment.
• EORA can handle all proceeds for us i.e. we don't have to open a Paypal Merchant Account nor convert our banking account in order to receive payments from CC. There's a catch though. First and most important, we won't have access to the ticket proceeds until after the event. According to Nikos Tsamis, this is for EORA's safety, in case the event doesn't happen they'll have to have money for the refunds. This measure, isn't set on stone; it's mainly a trust thing. Secondly, if EORA handles all proceeds for us, they get to keep their fee immediately, when the ticket purchase is made.
• If on the other hand we opt to handle the proceeds ourselves, we have to apply for a Paypal Merchant Account. It's a 3 step process involving opening the account, verifying it and then Lift Limits. The 3rd step is to allow our PMA to accepts payments over a certain limit. Nikos said that while this is a straight forward process, it can get stuck sometimes and Support has to be involved.
• Additional to the last bullet, we have to open a bank account which has to be able to accept payments from CCs. Usually this involves a simple agreement form. We have to check for AMKE.
• In either case we can start with EORAs PMA and then switch to our own.

Tickets

• There's no preview ticket form in EORA's control panel
• First/Last name is mandatory in the ticket form. No anonymous tickets support.
• Embedded ticket widget. When Register is pressed the user is redirected to EORA.
• Android/iPhone app. Ticket can be stored there.
• Tickets come with a QR code attached.
• iPhone Passbook
• Customised emails.
• Allow donations.
• There is the option to give free tickets; EORA doesn't charge for this type of tickets.
• Can be purchased in bulk and we can give them in bulk.

Check in procedure

• EORA app scans the ticket QR code. Tickets are in EORA's app or in passbook or in an email or printed in paper.
• Also from the EORA control panel web interface.
• QR scanning check-in and via the web UI (laptop) are done simultaneously.
• Staff training is minimal (5 mins).

Ticket Fraud

• Cross check ticket name with ID.
• When refunds have to be made, it's either EORA, if they are handling the proceeds, or us.

Sponsors

• Banner in event page and in customised emails
• Regarding the check-in procedure: In TedxAthens Γερμανος had donated? the smartphones used as QR scanners.

Social

• The usual Like/Tweet button when a ticket is bought.
• Create FB event from EORA's control panel.
• Something about EORA's mobile app. Only the Android version can interact with social media (check this).

[pagojo]

The other thing which (may be old skool but) can prove very useful is that Eventora give you in CSV format the ticket holders' details. This DB can be used among other things for the final day's Euruko 2014 voting (see #4).

[pagojo]

@vvatikiotis I think you've answered this in person but to confirm I'll ask again. They do allow custom fields in their forms right? (e.g., for t-shirts etc)

[vvatikiotis]

@pagojo Yes they do. And all companies I've seen so far provide excel/CSV export, it's a standard feature.

[fotos]

@vvatikiotis comments are not "on" in the Excel. Also can you please rename the document to "Ticket Management Companies". This is not about event management and (personally) I don't abbreviations. :) Nevertheless great job on gathering all this info.

Here is my take on this issue:

Eventora is a Greek company and we want to support Greek companies / startups.

We need further reassurances that they can handle spike traffic.

If we choose Eventora we should consider paying them just after each batch is released. I don't consider it a drawback that they don't provide anonymous tickets. We want eponymous persons attending not anonymous! :P I like that we can also give free tickets free of charge.

The most cost effective way to handle tickets is Ticketbud with their flat fee. Also check the calculator on their site.

For 600 delegates the costs per company are:

Company	Delegates	Ticket price (€)	Ticket company fee	Standard CC fee	Ticket Income - All CC	Paypal fee	Ticket Income - All Paypal
Eventora	600	60	2%	2%	34.560€	3,4% + 0,35€	33.846€
Amiando	600	60	2,95% + 0,99€	-	-	2,95%	33.282€
Eventbright	600	60	2,5% + 0,75€	3.5%	33.390€	3,4%+ 0,25€	33.276€
Ticketbud	600	60	99€	-	-	3,4% + 0,35€-	34.467€

The best case scenario is 36.000€.

I'm against starting with Eventora's PMA and then switching to our PMA and bank account since this might complicate accounting. KISS principle. Either start and stick with Eventora or apply for a Paypal Merchant Account from the start. I prefer we create our own bank account and apply for PMA ASAP and be ready to integrate our account with Eventora. Given they are affiliated with Piraeus we should also consider this bank since there won't be any delay in receiving funds nor any commissions / fees.

What do you mean by sponsors? If we add them as sponsors ("Tickets handled by Eventora") what will they do for us?

I'd want to get this (ticket company selection) out of they way as soon as possible. Fellow co-organizers please add your comments if any and let's vote on this. @vvatikiotis can you initiiate a voting on this issue (don't open yet another one)?

UPDATE: Changed Ticketbud numbers and added Paypal's processing fees. Adjusted the total ticket income.

[nikosd]

An important note: I believe that the two dashes for Ticketpud CC/Paypal costs are not right. They say that you use your own paypal/authorize accounts which probably means that we will have the standard fees applied from these two payment gateways directly and not through Ticketbud. @vvatikiotis can you contact them and clarify this please?

On Sat, Dec 22, 2012 at 9:25 PM, Fotos Georgiadis notifications@github.comwrote:

Ticketbud

[fotos]

@nikosd you are correct... At Ticketbud's website they mention "Pricing does not include credit card processing fees. If you can find a way to avoid them, let us know. Seriously!" Which complicates things a bit since they don't mention the processing fees on their website. @vvatikiotis can you send them an email?

Nevertheless since others charge a percentage they are bound to be more expensive. The fee of the other companies ranges from 720€ (for Eventora) up to 1656 € (for Amiando). Compare this to the 99€ of Ticketbud.

I'll update the table above...

[vvatikiotis]

No need for email, @nikosd is correct. Their $99 fee excludes the CC/Paypal fees.

@gfotos. Indeed. It's $99 vs 720EUR for eventora. But this comparison is a bit dry...

I agree with you on setting up our own PMA account. No need for back-and-forth routines.

I'll give them a call about the spike traffic issue, but I don't think it's an issue. Even without the early bird tickets, it's 700 requests for 3 minutes? Anything can handle that, unless it's a back-end processing thing (read bank).

[vvatikiotis]

I can complete the market research, the Eventbrite test drive is the last one. Imo, the feature by feature comparison is meaningless, at this point. All companies satisfy our feature needs and all companies have a comparable feature set.

[vvatikiotis]

There's a glitch on your calculations. The Paypal fees for Europe are 3.4% + 0.35EUR. So ALL tickets processed by Paypal will have these numbers applied to them. As the Paypal/CC commissions get higher the less relevant the company fee becomes cause the Paypal/CC commissions dominate.

[fotos]

Vasilis which calculation exactly is wrong?

On Sun, Dec 23, 2012 at 8:22 PM, Vassilis Vatikiotis < notifications@github.com> wrote:

There's a glitch on your calculations. The Paypal fees for Europe are 3.4%

• 0.35EUR. So ALL tickets processed by Paypal will have these numbers applied to them. As the Paypal/CC commissions get higher the less relevant the company fee becomes cause the Paypal/CC commissions dominate.

— Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHubhttps://github.com/euruko2013/committee/issues/46#issuecomment-11648909.

[vvatikiotis]

Ignore my last post. exaclty :) My eye caught the CC commissions and I thought you were referring to the PP commissions. 3.4% + 0.35 it is, just like you wrote em.

[vvatikiotis]

Hello everyone and merry xmas hohoho,

I've updated the Ticketing Management Companies https://docs.google.com/a/euruko2013.org/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Avfy7Znze_DzdDRsRFNoSkZGUk1IZ0pBX28xMHhEbXc#gid=1

The feature list is not complete, I don't think there's any point in finishing it up for Eventbrite. All companies have the basic features we need, so there's nothing blocking as far as the features are involved.

I've created a second sheet in the spreadsheet. Basically it's the table @gfotos put in previous comment. It's updated with some new figures. Take a look at it.

Take a look at the the bold features in the features sheet. I have emailed eventora to double confirm!

I feel that a voting is in order. Maybe not ending by Sunday but definitely on Wed. Please, take a look at the spreadsheet and if you feel there's something blocking ( and only then ), say so.

Voting hasn't began yet (by the time of this writing). Stay tuned to the thread...

[vvatikiotis]

Waiting for Eventora, Amiando and Eventbrite replies.

[vvatikiotis]

• Updated pass file with Eventora pass. No pass for Ticketbud as I signup with my Twitter account. Amiando pass change process takes ages (forgot the pass so I send for pass change) and I've got a reply yet. Eventbrite I haven't signed up (or I don't recall).
• The info I got back from Eventora, Eventbrite verifies what I've gathered about those 2 services. Amiando and Ticketbud haven't replied yet.
• Eventbrite assumes that an NFP company is tax exempted, so in order to get the special fee we need to send those documents that prove we are an NFP. In such a case, their fee is 2% from each ticket, instead of 2.5%.
• The downside with Eventora is that we have to open a bank merchant account and PMA, since we need the proceeds immediately. If we delegates these issues to Eventora then they deduct eventora and payment fees immediately, on a monthely basis and they transfer the money to us, for free ( normally, each transfer, applies a charge of 0,70€ (Piraeus) or 3,00 € PayPal).
• I'm forwarding the email Nikos Tsamis sent me.

[vvatikiotis]

We have consensus, we will be using Eventora.

closed