Euruko 2014 selection process

[damphyr]

Several comments on the 2012 Euruko said that the voting does not really scale with the conference. Brainstorm about ways to make voting "fair".

[apantsiop]

550 ostraka = 550 equally sized marbles

In the beginning of the previous century, marbles (but not glassy ones) were used for voting. And when someone wanted a party to win really bad, he/she used to bite the marble before casting it (="δαγκωτό").

A scale with acceptable precision costs around 20 euros. I would say the total cost is manageble.

I am starting to like the idea.

[vvatikiotis]

It's consistency with Fotos idea, lo tek concept, demokracy, cheap, easy, etcetc . We should seriously consider it.

On Tue, Jun 4, 2013 at 10:51 AM, Apostolos Pantsiopoulos < notifications@github.com> wrote:

550 ostraka = 550 equally sized marbles

In the beginning of the previous century, marbles (but not glassy ones) were used for voting. And when someone wanted a party to win really bad, he/she used to bite the marble before casting it (="äáãêùôü").

A scale with acceptable precision costs around 20 euros. I would say the total cost is manageble.

I am starting to like the idea.

-- Apostolos Pantsiopoulos Software Engineer

On Tue, Jun 4, 2013 at 10:33 AM, Vassilis Vatikiotis < notifications@github.com> wrote:

I just reread rizopoulos idea. And it kicks imo, you cheeky bugger. Take a minute to read it, it's 5 lines.

If we go for the lo-tech option, it offers:

• can be tied beautifully to old school democracy approach and theme.
• it' dead simple to implement
• minimum logistics for us.
• Distribution of ostraka either during registration or even inside the theater, just before the event. More fun and motion after 2 days. Again, minimum logistrics.
• very accurate, no fuzzy outcome.
• very social, as ppl will queue up and be free to do whatever they feel like. Fun, chat while queuing, moving, a nice _active_intermission.
• no raised hands (i have an issue with that, prob unjustified), no static "hold still guys a bit"
• lo tek after 2 days of hi tek

Cons

• we have to buy 550 ostraka.
• we'll need 4-5-6-7 big jars able to hold around 200? 150? ostraka. Buy em?
• we need a scale, buy?
• lo tek after 2 days of hi tek
• GeorgeB primarily and John have put up a lot of work.It's unfair and tbh way more than unfair to toss their work in the bin just because we cannot arrange our affairs, as we should have. Im not pointing at any1 here, this is on all of us.

Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub< https://github.com/euruko2013/committee/issues/4#issuecomment-18893391> .

— Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHubhttps://github.com/euruko2013/committee/issues/4#issuecomment-18894104 .

[pagojo]

Cons

• we have to buy 550 ostraka. • we'll need 4-5-6-7 big jars able to hold around 200? 150? ostraka. Buy em? • we need a scale, buy? • lo tek after 2 days of hi tek • GeorgeB primarily and John have put up a lot of work.It's unfair and tbh way more than unfair to toss their work in the bin just because we cannot arrange our affairs, as we should have. Im not pointing at any1 here, this is on all of us.

"Have you lost your marbles?" :-)

1. We can do this voting by using ruby coloured marbles, like the ones we used to play with at school when we were young, no need for ostraka.
2. As far as George's effort goes, it was communicated very clearly from the start that his work was 'Plan C' and in that respect the chances of being used were minimal. Both George and myself pretty well know we have been working on something that may never be used. It was always part of the plan. It sucks but this is what we signed up for, so it is cool. Assuming we go with 'ostraka' we will continue with this anyway just in case, as it was always the plan. No need to worry about our feelings :-)

[chief]

Ι like the low tek solution, no time for me to brainstorm on this issue. Whoever takes it, I want to deliver it and that's all.

[apantsiop]

I think we are converging to the jar and marbles solution. Right? +1 if you agree.

+1 from me

-- Apostolos Pantsiopoulos Software Engineer

On Tue, Jun 4, 2013 at 12:58 PM, Giorgos Tsiftsis notifications@github.comwrote:

É like the low tek solution, no time for me to brainstorm on this issue. Whoever takes it, I want to deliver it and that's all.

Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHubhttps://github.com/euruko2013/committee/issues/4#issuecomment-18899559 .

[vvatikiotis]

Please yes, need consensus here :( It's a nice approach which combines everything we've been talking about. I'd love to see this resolved before Wed, so we wouldn't have to talk for an hour about this on Wed.

[chief]

+1 jar and marbles

[damphyr]

Yay, momentary inspiration saves the day! I say we get one of those balancing scales with the weights (you know, the ones the grocer used to have, with the bronze weights :tongue: ) and do a whole show weighing the things hehe. :+1: on the jar and marbles. Love the marbles touch

[apantsiop]

@fotos will lead it from now on

@foto we need a blog entry SOON to inform that there will be no preso, only a rhetoric speech!!!

[fotos]

@apantsiop how the heck was this decided to be delegated to me on my absence and without my consent?! Sorry, I will not do this. I was assured that @pagojo, as noted above multiple times, will handle this issue just like he said he will. I have neither the time nor the inclination to "hijack" this issue anymore.

[apantsiop]

1) You were eager to get it from John the last time, as I recall ("hijack" as you wrote :P).

2) The whole concept was your idea and the only thing that related pagojo with it was Batistato's app (and a possible interface with the mobile apps). We decided not to go with the app.

3) You have less tasks assigned to you than the other members do.

4) It is not written in stone. You can always decline (as you already did). :)

@committee: Changing it back to @pagojo or someone else?

[pagojo]

@fotos I assured you that the voting applications will happen! The web based Plan C is sstill happening because this is the fallback plan and always has been.

Like @nolamesa was looking for an alternative Plan A using decibelometrers you proposed another Plan A and as such it was assigned to you. We thought it was never in the cards for someone other than you to do it, because it was your idea. However, if you can't do it I am more than happy to pick it up, no worries

[nikosd]

@pagojo has a lot of important tasks already in progress (wifi, power, streaming). I would prefer someone else to lead it unless he (@pagojo) is totally ok with it. If no-one else can/wants, I can take it over but it's of little interest to me...

[fotos]

@apantsiop read the comments above again. I can quote from above for you:

vvatikiotis:

John can coordinate the whole thing since he's already on it

pagojo:

Chaps the electronic voting is almost a done deal in terms of tech

(saying that the task is somehow already done)

fotos:

I was assured that @pagojo will lead it no matter the decision reached here.

I have also discussed this over the phone 2 times (with both @vvatikiotis and @pagojo) and they both said that I should not take this task since @pagojo was already handling it. Don't twist the facts, they are already written above clearly. Go read them again if you wish.

I proposed to do this since @pagojo already had enough tasks but he declined strongly. Until I was involved into brainstorming this there was almost nothing on the table. An idea for visual recognition that even @pagojo didn't believe in and a plan X-Y-Z that was (is) a simple web application. No concept, no imagination, no holistic approach, nothing!

I have enough tasks on my hands already. And I have completed many tasks on time (and that's why it might appear I have less tasks now).

I already declined. I am not interested in pursuing this anymore. The circumstances are totally different now.

@pagojo you assured that the whole thing (whichever was chosen) would happen. It was never assigned to me, please don't lie.

We thought it was never in the cards for someone other than you to do it, because it was your idea. However, if you can't do it I am more than happy to pick it up, no worries

What a load of crap?! Seriously, you wanna look like the good guy now, that saves the day?

The proper words would be "you don't want to do it", not "you can't do it". There is a huge difference and you (as well as everybody else) knows well enough that I'm fully capable in doing it (pun) but I just don't want to.

PS. In Greek: δε θα μας βγάλετε και μαλάκες εδωπέρα....

[pagojo]

@fotos None has the intention to lie or even has a reason to. The committee yesterday thought we would be stepping on your toes if it was assigned to someone other than yourself. We're not talking crap this is what went down last night.

Perhaps it is my fault and I mislead you when I said 'it' was going to be done no matter what, since I had the electronic/hi-tech approach in my mind at that point (that was the context of our phone call anyway). Pardon me if that was not clear. In any case I am happy to do this as I'm happy for you to do this.

[apantsiop]

@fotos it is clear. We really thought you wanted it. You don't want it. No worries. We corrected the situation by assigning this to someone else. @pagojo and @nikosd, please, talk to each other and announce the owner of the task.

[damphyr]

Since there's no MC duties for me anymore my task list is suspiciously empty, so I'm perfectly OK with taking this over.

On Thu, Jun 6, 2013 at 12:12 PM, Apostolos Pantsiopoulos < notifications@github.com> wrote:

@fotos https://github.com/fotos it is clear. We really thought you wanted it. You don't want it. No worries. We corrected the situation by assigning this to someone else. @pagojo https://github.com/pagojo and @nikosd https://github.com/nikosd, please, talk to each other and announce the owner of the task.

— Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHubhttps://github.com/euruko2013/committee/issues/4#issuecomment-19033317 .

http://www.ampelofilosofies.gr

[apantsiop]

Yes, that would be nice. But it involves gathering materials (jars, marbles, chitons etc.) so, it wouldn't make sense to assign it to someone outside Athens.

[nolamesa]

I think he can buy everything in Thessaloniki and bring them when he comes to Athens.

[pagojo]

Yes, that would be nice. But it involves gathering materials (jars, marbles, chitons etc.) so, it wouldn't make sense to assign it to someone outside Athens.

Vassilis will be in Athens a week before, so we can use him for many errants concerning this (and other) task :-)

Especially if he bring his bike with him.

[apantsiop]

If he can deliver it is fine by everyone. (I don't know how easy it is to find chitones in Salonica).

note: the jars should not be transparent.

-- Apostolos Pantsiopoulos Software Engineer

On Thu, Jun 6, 2013 at 1:26 PM, pagojo notifications@github.com wrote:

Yes, that would be nice. But it involves gathering materials (jars, marbles, chitons etc.) so, it wouldn't make sense to assign it to someone outside Athens.

Vassilis will be in Athens a week before, so we can use him for many errants concerning this (and other) task :-)

Especially if he bring his bike with him.

— Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHubhttps://github.com/euruko2013/committee/issues/4#issuecomment-19036670 .

[nolamesa]

Why not? It would be really cool to be transparent!

[apantsiop]

because, we (and everyone) will know the result before weighing them :)

-- Apostolos Pantsiopoulos Software Engineer

On Thu, Jun 6, 2013 at 1:53 PM, nolamesa notifications@github.com wrote:

Why not? It would be really cool to be transparent!

— Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHubhttps://github.com/euruko2013/committee/issues/4#issuecomment-19037780 .

[damphyr]

Small pitharia will be best, they're in the spirit of the whole thing. I also have in mind what type of scale (kremasti) can be used with them. Question is where do I find the scale in Athens (I know where to get everything else). Depending on the number of candidate cities (I'd estimate 5 to be safe) we're looking at a modest budget here (~200 Euros I'd say for all the materials). The scale might be tricky (I can't bring the one I have at home unfortunately).

[apantsiop]

Use a simple digital 20 euros scale.

-- Apostolos Pantsiopoulos Software Engineer

On Thu, Jun 6, 2013 at 2:43 PM, Vassilis Rizopoulos < notifications@github.com> wrote:

Small pitharia will be best, they're in the spirit of the whole thing. I also have in mind what type of scale (kremasti) can be used with them. Question is where do I find the scale in Athens (I know where to get everything else). Depending on the number of candidate cities (I'd estimate 5 to be safe) we're looking at a modest budget here (~200 Euros I'd say for all the materials). The scale might be tricky (I can't bring the one I have at home unfortunately).

— Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHubhttps://github.com/euruko2013/committee/issues/4#issuecomment-19039760 .

[pagojo]

On 6 Jun 2013, at 12:43, Vassilis Rizopoulos wrote:

Small pitharia will be best, they're in the spirit of the whole thing. I also have in mind what type of scale (kremasti) can be used with them. Question is where do I find the scale in Athens (I know where to get everything else). Depending on the number of candidate cities (I'd estimate 5 to be safe) we're looking at a modest budget here (~200 Euros I'd say for all the materials). The scale might be tricky (I can't bring the one I have at home unfortunately).

A problem with 'pitharia' may be that their weight will be enough to render the weight of the marbles perhaps irrelevant so we'll need a scale with higher sensitivity and tolerance. Don't know really, but let's keep that in mind when we look for them. Good idea though.

[pagojo]

Chaps, we will need to decide how many costumes (chlamidas) to order and for whom :-)

I'm in contact with 2 costume rental companies which supply greek theatres

I suggest:

• a very short one for Panos :-)
• a long one for Rania (if she wishes to join the act with Panos:-)
• 2-4 for the presenters (depending on cost) so that we can have 1-2 on stage while the other 1-2 get prepared.

We also need to decide on the blog/twitter communication which needs to go out by the beginning of next week in my opinion.

[nolamesa]

Let's not wait until next week for the blog post. Ideally it should go live by tomorrow. It does not need to say anything about what we decided. Just that they should prepare a speech (or a presentation - I vote for presentation).

If someone can start a gdoc with it I can also help late tonight with reviewing/adding stuff and making it markdown.

About the costumes I say go ahead with what you described and get a quote. Btw it would be nice to get a fake beard as well :)

[pagojo]

It looks like clothing is cheap at 30Euros for 4 days....

I'll get back with more info about props.

[chief]

marbles acquired