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Allow fellow learners to approve solutions #228

Closed Jeffrey04 closed 6 years ago

Jeffrey04 commented 6 years ago

Would it be better if fellow learners get to help approving solutions too instead of relying on a handful of mentors reading through all the submissions? My progress is currently stalled because I am waiting for a mentor's feedback. If reinforcing good programming practice is a concern, requiring more than N votes from learners to substitute 1 mentor vote is probably good enough.

m3m0ry commented 6 years ago

I agree. Especially with languages which are not highly popular as e.g. python the feedback duration takes too long.

Currently i do Common Lisp. Exersim says there are 0 mentors.

kytrinyx commented 6 years ago

Fellow learners are welcome to become mentors: http://mentoring.exercism.io/

m3m0ry commented 6 years ago

Yeah sure, but i need to complete the track first. Gain some experience. Then i can do some mentoring.

Jeffrey04 commented 6 years ago

lol, but I am not feeling comfortable enough with the language so not going to apply as a mentor hahaha, also what is the point of having a mentor system if a person who is new to the language can sign up as a mentor?

(also i was already on another question before the migration but didn't submit in time, and I am now blocked from submitting because the question is now locked as I need approval for the submission to another problem now, which is the reason for this ticket)

iHiD commented 6 years ago

So the question for me is, if you're not feeling confident enough to mentor, why would you be confident enough to vote someone's solution as completed? The two seem to require the same amount of knowledge.

On Tue, 17 Jul 2018, 05:22 Choon-Siang Lai, notifications@github.com wrote:

lol, but I am not feeling comfortable enough with the language so not going to apply as a mentor hahaha

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coriolinus commented 6 years ago

I can't speak for the OP, but I suspect that people would be more willing to mentor on a specific exercise which they've already completed than to sign up to be a general-purpose, track-wide mentor.

iHiD commented 6 years ago

@coriolinus Yeah - maybe. 600 people have signed up to be mentors though, so I don't think that anything is specifically putting people off at the moment.

I think we just need to give it all a week or two to see how things unfold.

Jeffrey04 commented 6 years ago

Erm this is exactly why I suggested to require more than 1 (maybe 3 or more?) from non-mentor, if more non-mentor thinks it is fine, then it would most probably be fine. Otherwise the worst case scenario is that everyone will be stuck because there are simply not enough mentors around, and they may all living in different time zones (why are we locking all the exercises again?). Also (assuming) they are not paid, which means there's nothing we can do to get them on and review every single submissions.

blogscot commented 6 years ago

I've just now found myself locked out of the Rust track. I imagine at this early stage of Exercism v2 the rate of mentor approvals is going to be far slower than the student submission rate, given there are currently only 9 mentors for 5190 students in this track. By making students to have to wait for approval before moving on, I forsee many finding themselves this same blocked state.

Would it be an good idea to allow students to progress to the next task after submission (as per Exercism v1), so that the rate of submissions doesn't have to match the rate of approvals?

coriolinus commented 6 years ago

That's fundamentally what independent mode is.

On Wed, Jul 18, 2018 at 5:34 PM Iain Diamond notifications@github.com wrote:

I've just now found myself locked out of the Rust track. I imagine at this early stage of Exercism v2 the rate of mentor approvals is going to be far slower than the student submission rate, given there are currently only 9 mentors for 5190 students in this track. By making students to have to wait for approval before moving on, I forsee many finding themselves this same blocked state.

Would it be an good idea to allow students to progress to the next task after submission (as per Exercism v1), so that the rate of submissions doesn't have to match the rate of approvals?

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blogscot commented 6 years ago

Where can I find a description of independent mode?

coriolinus commented 6 years ago

I'm not sure if a comprehensive description currently exists. Here's what I know:

The button to switch modes is towards the bottom-right of a track's overview page: independent mode

blogscot commented 6 years ago

Thanks @coriolinus, but I'm still not any clearer what the difference between normal and independent mode is, and as there's currently no way back from independent mode I'm not in a hurry to jump in.

m3m0ry commented 6 years ago

So i thought about this and also waited a few days. Having students checking if the solution is not ideal. I think the main problem is that because of the fresh start of exersism2 there are not yet enough mentors. The second problem is that most students want to do the exercises one by one, multiple during one session. So they would like to heave immediate feedback, which is impossible, or just take the next exercise.

I think the independent track solves this problem, however it is not stated clearly what the independent mode is! Even i don't know it.

TLDR; Being in the independent mode, can i request a mentor? Because this is a crucial feature.

iHiD commented 6 years ago

So two things.

We're working on making both of these clearer as a priority.

On Wed, 18 Jul 2018, 16:51 hr0m m3m0ry, notifications@github.com wrote:

So i thought about this and also waited a few days. Having students checking if the solution is not ideal. I think the main problem is that because of the fresh start of exersism2 there are not yet enough mentors. The second problem is that most students want to do the exercises one by one, multiple during one session. So they would like to heave immediate feedback, which is impossible, or just take the next exercise.

I think the independent track solves this problem, however it is not stated clearly what the independent mode is! Even i don't know it.

TLDR; Being in the independent mode, can i request a mentor? Because this is a crucial feature.

— You are receiving this because you commented.

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m3m0ry commented 6 years ago

This two pieces of information are crucial, please put them somewhere on the site for everyone to see.

iHiD commented 6 years ago

As I said, we're working on making both of these clearer as a priority. Both pieces of information are on the site but people don't always read everything, so we have to find more inventive ways to make these things clearer. We're working on it :)

On Wed, 18 Jul 2018, 17:31 hr0m m3m0ry, notifications@github.com wrote:

This two pieces of information are crucial, please put them somewhere on the site for everyone to see.

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rpottsoh commented 6 years ago

In independent mode you do not have to wait for mentor approval before moving on the next core exercise. I think also (and this is where I am a little fuzzy on the topic) I believe those students that have chosen the independent route, their solutions are not public. I also think they may not be able to see submissions from other students as well, since there submissions are not public. I am not sure if, as an independent student, you are able to selectively publicize your submissions which would then in turn grant you access to the public submissions and vice versa….

ghost commented 6 years ago

This is clearly still an issue. I wish to enjoy the default experience but the main Python Track is locked (it's quite a popular one, isn't it?) and the last community solution was published 11 days ago.

iHiD commented 6 years ago

This is clearly still an issue. I wish to enjoy the default experience but the main Python Track is locked (it's quite a popular one, isn't it?) and the last community solution was published 11 days ago.

Right now there are 15 unmentored exercises on Python. Multiple core exercises have been approved today. So I don't think it is an issue. Presuming you've completed Hello World (which doesn't require mentor approval) there are about 20 exercises you can do under the Extra Exercises section while you wait for mentoring on your core exercise.

I'm going to close this issue as this isn't a feature we're going to introduce. Thanks for suggesting it though :)