silly javascript

[ricardobeat]

plain javascript is annoying. it's a shame that we can't use a modern language to develop this thing. please consider rewriting everything in coffee-script

[jonathanong]

What's the point of this? Just trolling because your feelings got hurt?

If you think it's just about language, you're misguided. If you write your programs in CoffeeScript, you target the CoffeeScript community. If you write your programs in javascript, you target the javascript community.

[ricardobeat]

@jonathanong that's not how I see it. Coffeescript is part of the javascript community, since it's a tool to write javascript. Is bootstrap "targeted at the LESS community"? you can troll me back on twitter @ricardobeat

[jonathanong]

Yes, CoffeeScript is a subset of the javascript community, but not vice versa. When using CoffeeScript you're limiting your market.

Yes, bootstrap targets the less community, which is why I don't use it. However, they go through a big deal of effort to support the CSS community through customization options and publishing compiled code. Similarity, node has been trying to shy away from "native" CoffeeScript support vs CoffeeScript users who want everyone to have CoffeeScript on their machines to compile their code instead of publishing the compiled code.

Do you have an example that works?

[ricardobeat]

The same applies. Nobody advocates publishing non-compiled coffeescript, that's a fallacy. Tell me about an important module you've encountered that requires coffee-script on your machine.

[jonathanong]

https://github.com/rethinkdb/rethinkdb/issues/766

well, i guess rethinkdb isn't important.

Tell me about an important module you've encountered that requires coffee-script on your machine.

This is highly unlikely because

1. I don't know any important module even written in coffee script. https://github.com/languages/CoffeeScript/most_watched none of these seem important to me.
2. If it were written in coffee script, i would actively try to avoid it.

don't talk in absolutes unless you have absolute knowledge. "Nobody advocates publishing non-compiled coffeescript" is absolutely false. It's better to say, "I'm not advocating".

[ricardobeat]

Using RethinkDB's driver doesn't require coffee-script, it's only used for development, and there is a development pack with all sources pre-compiled.

Hubot, zombie, docco, chaplin, Dropbox's js client... okay

If it were written in coffee script, i would actively try to avoid it.

Why the attitude? Coffeescript is just a development tool, and a good one at what it proposes. Anyway, I think we have spammed TJ's inbox enough :) you can reach me on twitter if you want to continue the discussion.

[jonathanong]

useful? for certain cases. important? for what? for whom? for me, no. https://npmjs.org/browse/depended this is probably a better gauge of importance, but our values of importance are different.

i've tried coffeescript. sure, writing code is easier, but the problem is that i can't read it after i write my code, but that's not the issue. the issue is when coffeescript users start going to other people's repositories and start saying things like

plain javascript is annoying. it's a shame that we can't use a modern language to develop this thing. please consider rewriting everything in coffee-script

i don't go to repos written in coffeescript and tell them to write it in vanillajs. i'm just going to ignore them and let them do their thing. and then you complain about other people's attitude towards you.

you might complain about tj, but he didn't even know it was written in coffeescript. he decided to ignore the whole repo after finding out. you, on the other hand, decided to troll.

[tj]

I love how it's always vaild to disagree with the people who don't like coffeescript, but not for them to dislike it. I think the language is a disaster, deal with it, my opinion will not change, and like @jonathanong mentions you are opt-ing into a subset of the community when releasing public projects with it. I don't care if it compiles to js, I debug things, I contribute to things, if I cannot do either of those then I don't want to use it. Sure most people don't look at things before using them but that's not how I work.

[vendethiel]

You're totally free to dislike it. I actually think we need people disliking it. Like we need people supporting it. Where would we be if we had always agreed on how languages should be made ;) ?

i don't go to repos written in coffeescript and tell them to write it in vanillajs. i'm just going to ignore them and let them do their thing. and then you complain about other people's attitude towards you.

I agree that this is wrong. An joking issue was fun, another one to complain is not okay.

[tj]

I should have probably left the "ew" part out haha but meh, my feedback for their product is to use things people can contribute to and to simplify the build step, they can take it or leave it. I do find it extremely difficult to read but that's beside the point.

[vendethiel]

I was talking about this issue; I know you love to rant sometimes and you ended up being cheerful. On the other hand, different opinions should not bring disrepect.

'tis just a matter of taste, in the end, whatever. Same for me when I come across something good written in a language I think is garbage, like AutoIt, TCL, APL or other crufts.

[jonathanong]

totally. you know where i think coffeescript is very useful? tests. it would make it much easier to write, and others don't really "consume" it.

but really, i only had an issue with this guy creating a github issue only to troll. totally unnecessary. at least be constructive.

[tj]

There's always going to contention with transpilers, but yeah I'm doing better with not trolling so much haha, it's hard when you have strong opinions. It's frustrating when you really want to contribute to a project (not talking about rethink) and you can't read the source at all, let alone have it written in some funky 'language' that a small percentage of people use. That's a large reason why I love redis, it's one of the few C projects that is actually easy to read, most are really sloppy.

[ricardobeat]

@jonathanong I'm sorry, but that's exactly how I felt about the RethinkDB issue. I just wanted to point out the belligerent nature of these kinds of comments.

I can totally understand not wanting to contribute to a coffeescript codebase, but saying you "won't use it" (not "won't contribute") because of it is just being obnoxious.

[ricardobeat]

@Nami-Doc sorry, but honestly where was I disrespectful?

I actually considered writing a bot to spam all of @visionmedia's repos for fun, I guess we wouldn't be friends anymore then :D

[vendethiel]

I think spamming somebody knowing they already have tons of things to do is being disrespectful

[jonathanong]

but nagging the developer team to drop it or saying you "won't use it" (not "won't contribute") because of it is just being obnoxious

he didn't nag. he only stated it once. that's not nagging. plus, he closed his own issue, so he knew there wasn't much to be done, so he stopped. that's when all the CS-ers felt insulted and started replying. really, it's not a big deal. he wanted to contribute, realized it's too much effort, so he left.

I actually considered writing a bot to spam all of @visionmedia's repos for fun, I guess we wouldn't be friends anymore then :dancer:

if you spam anyone anywhere, especially on a productive, work-related website like GitHub, i'll make sure whichever platform you're on bans you. i would even pay a real spammer to spam you personally if it affects me.

[vendethiel]

that's when all the CS-ers felt insulted and started replying.

Let's avoid these kinds of shortcuts.

[jonathanong]

alright, that's fair. my bad. heh. kind of hard to not be a little mad when someone thinks spamming is okay. the only person i think was actually insulted was this guy, anyways.

[ricardobeat]

@Nami-Doc that's why I didn't do it.

By the way, you keep generating more junk by replying to this topic.

[jonathanong]

By the way, you keep generating more junk by replying to this topic.

what does that even mean?