More advanced favorite structuring and management

[Danielku15]

What's the Problem?

In our corporate environment we have quite a complex folder structure and managing all jump points can be really complicated. On top comes the issue that we have the same folder names within different trees (e.g. for multiple product versions we're developing).

Also many people work in different focus areas like development and project management in parallel. Depending on your current task and project you are working on, different kinds of favorites might be of relevance.

1) The Favorites listed in the sidebar do not provide a good out-of-the-box solution to this complex file hierarchies in corporate environments.

2) There is no possiblity to organize the favorites in hierarchies (nested folders) and also renaming items according to your preference is not possible leaving you with multiple favorites looking the same.

Solution/Idea

Web Browsers do a great job with favorites (aka. bookmarks):

• Chrome has a bookmark bar and a bookmark manager allowing you a more complex organization of your favorites in folder hierarchies with names on folders and items according to your preference.
• Firefox has a bookmark button, a bookmark bar (if enabled) and a bookmark manager allowing you a more complex organization of your favorites in folder hierarchies with names on folders and items according to your preference.
• Microsoft Edge has a similar approach like Firefox.

Browsers allow you to organize bookmarks in the bookmark manager and items added to a special folder "Bookmarks Bar" will be shown within the bar. Other bookmarks can be accessed through the menu item.

This is also the solution I would love to see within Files:

• A bookmark manager allowing you to organize all your favorites with a custom folder structure and renaming of items.
• A Special folder in the bookmark manager for manging the favorites in the sidebar
• A Special folder in the bookmark manager for managing the favorites which are shown within a newly added bookmark bar.

The bookmark bar could be only a second step, in a first step of improvement we could also foresee:

• A bookmark manager for better hierarchical organization of your favorites with the option to rename them (and maybe specify icons if we want to get really fancy)
• Extend the favorites sidebar to handle "bookmark folders". Here I see two possibilities: a) Use the expander approach. A click on the bookmark folder will expand the items within the sidebar. This also can be nested. Maybe some idention for visual indication is needed. b) Open a context menu on click listing all items in a structure there for navigation.

Alternatives

The alternative approach (which I also used as workaround in the classical file explorer) is to create locally on your disk somewhere folders where you put in your bookmarks. then from the favorites you jump into this bookmark folder and then use the right plane with the file/folder list to jump further.

While it works it has various drawbacks on usability:

• the bookmark folder navigation spoils your navigation history. When jumping back and forth between two folders you always need two navigation steps.
• does not provide a quick "at a glance" jumping. A bookmark bar or favorites have the benefit of very quickly jumping with one click to a desired location once you are used to the "on-screen location" of the item.

Priorities

Capability	Priority
This proposal will allow end users to manage the favorites through a new more advanced favorites manager	Must
This proposal will allow end users to modify favorite items to show a custom label	Must
This proposal will allow end users to nest favorites into hierarchies using folders which are shown as expanders or context menu in the sidebar	Must
This proposal will allow end users to display bookmarks in a bookmark bar beside the sidebar like web browser allow it	Should
This proposal will allow end users to modify favorite items to show a custom icon	Could

Files Version

Version: 2.0.13.0 OS Version: 10.0.19041.1237

Windows Version

Windows 10 Enterprise 2004 19041.1237

Additional comment

I tried to cover my overall vision of the favorites in one single issue but I see chances to break this feature down to smaller steps like:

1. Only allow renaming of favorites through context menu
2. Add folder support to favorites (maybe also simply through context menu on the favorites and existing favorite folders)
3. Add advanced favorite manager UI
4. Add bookmark button to access additional favorites not shown in sidebar (like Edge and Firefox)
5. Add bookmark bar

[yaira2]

@Danielku1 Currently, all changes to sidebar items are actual changes to the folder, this includes changing the name and icon. Treating favorites as a bookmark can work, but it would introduce another layer of complexity as renaming an item from the sidebar would no longer reflect on the actual path and while some would prefer this behavior, many users do not. We have a bundles feature that allows you to group folders from different directories together in a virtual folder and quickly launch them from there. Perhaps this can be an alternative to what you're trying to accomplish without adding the extra complexity of treating favorites as a bookmark with a virtual name. If this works for you, perhaps we can consider allowing users to pin bundles to the sidebar to make it easier to jump to them.

[rikin-patel435]

Me also waiting for the bookmark feature in windows explorer. You can refer to the same feature in the following application. I am using it for the last 3-4 years and it's a lot helpful for complex folder structure.

http://en.ejie.me/

[ptmrio]

This would be the one benefit to make me switch permanently. Switching between project folders is a pain in the a**, compared to the browser bookmarks experience. New Project, new Bookmark in a dedicated bookmarks bar? Problem solved! Would be very very happy!

[yaira2]

The next version of Files is coming with a new widget for tags. This is a great way to organize important documents and while it's not exactly what's being requested, it checks most of the boxes and I think it'll do the trick.

[ptmrio]

Still I don't know why all the file explorer communities promote the inferior favorites sidebar instead of a full customizable bookmarks bar. Do you ever use a browser, create bookmarks, bookmark folders and rename bookmarks? This is way superior to this. Imagine bookmarks in your browser worked liked favorites in file explorers you

• could only see the title of the page
• you couldn't edit the entry
• you couldn't group them into folders

Yeah sometimes bookmarks expire. Yes they have there problems. But they work and boost productivity and safety by a huge amount.

So please consider this killer feature in a proper implementation 🙏

[Josh65-2201]

• For point one they function the same. You see the icon and name if you hover over it you see where it goes.
• For point two you can edit the entry by just pinning the folder you want there a removing the ones you don't. Renaming favourites item only is being tracked with #3422
• For point three you can use tags as a favourite folder. If you just want only groups of folders you can turn the favourites section off and just use tags.

[ptmrio]

let's say it like James Franco, „same same but still different“. Just image on sec. how it would feel. A bookmarks bar is a already difficult for most end users. However most of my clients and non tech users don't customize the favorites in their file explorer but are still somewhat able to manage bookmarks in the browser. As they now the „web browser“, they might also know how to use a files browser better, if the good interface elements are somewhat similar.

Unifying the experience would be a great benefit for low tech users as well as high productivity users. It still could be optional. And I guarantee you, as soon as the techies notice the utility and availability of a bookmarks bar, the popularity of files will explode!

[luke-motto]

I bookmark bar like in the file manager "clover" would be useful. To create bookmarks, the folders or files are dragged and dropped onto the bookmarks bar. It should be possible to import and export the bookmarks to a file.

[yaira2]

Have you tried the tags widget? The UX is a little different, but it allows you to organize folders and files under tags. You can open tags from the sidebar and there is a widget on the home page where you can view tags side by side.

We're going to continue expanding the feature set for tags and while I understand this isn't the same exact, I hope you give it a try and see if it can be part of your workflow.

I'm going to leave this discussion open because tags are still a new feature and it's hard to know if it's a suitable alternative. Additionally, if it were up to me, I'd replace the sidebar with a bookmarks bar. I did some experimentation on this a couple of months ago, but the majority of users weren't ready for such a drastic change.

[ptmrio]

@yaira2 thanks, I tried it and its like 10% of what real Bookmarks do.

Just look at the screenshot @luke-motto provided. That would be perfect 😍

As for user adoption: just make it optional. Yet I still want to repeat: most (end) users are nowadays more familar with the browser interface. When I tell clients to open "File Explorer" most people look confused. Almost NOBODY uses the favorites functionally correctly, yet SOME use bookmarks in the browser.

I understand your argument, but it's not the "users aren't ready", they are, the we dev's aren't ready, because favorites always worked the way it worked. So I still beg you all masters of code: please reconsider. Just give it a try, you might like it. The only promise I can make, is to promote the hell out of your software, as soon as this features drops 🙏

[yaira2]

A key difference between a file manager and web browser is the window size. Users tend to make their browsers full screen while they keep file managers in windowed mode. There are exceptions but this seems to be the case for most users.

[ptmrio]

So I suggest again, make it an optional feature and let's see how it's welcomed. I would also guess, that most end users don't download third party file explorers, while many power users would do. And those power users are the ones that benefint from bookmarks most.

plus there could always be the option, to make the bookmarks bar vertical, like most browsers do nowadays.

Example:

[hecksmosis]

This could be difficult to implement, especially now that we have set Favorites to automatically sync with File Explorer

[ptmrio]

It would have to be completely separate from favorites. Mostly because favorites misses the ability to use aliases, or in other words "rename" them. Just imagine your browser storing bookmarks as the last part of the url. It would be useless. However one could rename and structure them freely, just like in the bookmarks bar.

e.g. I have multiple customer Google Shared drives on my pc. Some of them have the same Name like "Images". Currently it is a complete mess, to guess wheater it is customer a's or b's image folder.

If I had a bookmarks bar I would save a's images as "Images A" and b's as "Images B" (tbh I would use folders, but I hope this explains it better)

[DennisGaida]

Tags is a good feature, but it doesn't completely address this issue. The main thing missing is hierarchy. I don't want 100 tags to 100 folder/files - I want to organize these in a hierarchy, e.g.

• Work
  • SharePoint Site 1
  • SharePoint Site 2
  • CRM
  • CRM 1
  • CRM 2
• Home
  • NextCloud
  • Dropbox
  • [...]
• Development
  • Github Repo 1
  • Bitbucket Repo 1

I'm personally using Directory Opus for years now and it just has a favorites feature, that pretty much works like in the browser (as suggested in this issue - https://www.gpsoft.com.au/help/opus12/index.html#!Documents/Favorites1.htm). This is something I would want for the Files app as well.

Yes - as previously suggested - that means favorites are separate from Paths, so if you move a folder, your favorite is broken. Possibly this could be alleviated with the tags feature since they are stored in the alternate file streams of the files? That would get back to having a db/index of those favorites then.

The Windows default favorites are a different animal, since they just don't have hierarchies.

[mdtauk]

Instead of having folders used for holding favourites/bookmarks - what if we had "Collections"

It would appear as a tree item, in a Favourites tree - and can include virtual links to folders.

[yaira2]

Collections might be a good way to solve #11900 as well.

[mdtauk]

Collections might be a good way to solve #11900 as well.

"Save tabs to collection"

And then the ability to open all of the Collection's folders in a new window, or as tabs in the existing window.

Now this then needs us to think about if we need to have a way to show grouped tabs, if a Collection is open and non Collection tabs are also open?

[ptmrio]

I must again mention that a bookmarks bar is a highly used and effective way for what we want to accomplish. As the browser is more and more in the center of the daily UX, i suggest it would be best for everyone to copy the experience into the files browser, especially the good ones.

I guess the Favorites thing is some kind of qwerty effect. Because it way always there it must be good. And I do not suggest to get rid of them, but make them more versatile. Browsers do implement vertical bookmarks bars. I still perfer horizontal though, so why not give people a choice? Make Folders (lets call them Collections for the sake of good) where I can store Folders and posssible even Files in the same manner as in Browsers. And make the layout (horizontal/vertical) an option in the settings.

🙏

[mdtauk]

I must again mention that a bookmarks bar is a highly used and effective way for what we want to accomplish. As the browser is more and more in the center of the daily UX, i suggest it would be best for everyone to copy the experience into the files browser, especially the good ones.

I guess the Favorites thing is some kind of qwerty effect. Because it way always there it must be good. And I do not suggest to get rid of them, but make them more versatile. Browsers do implement vertical bookmarks bars. I still perfer horizontal though, so why not give people a choice? Make Folders (lets call them Collections for the sake of good) where I can store Folders and posssible even Files in the same manner as in Browsers. And make the layout (horizontal/vertical) an option in the settings.

🙏

I appreciate your reasoning for asking for this, and like yourself I use the bookmarks/favourites bar in my browser.

The way Files' UI is designed, will lead to 4 rows of UI at the top of the window, and having both the sidebar and another level of navigation for folders, will become quite overwhelming (even if it is optional).

Finding a way to implement this kind of feature will take time, and care.

[ptmrio]

i absolutely woudn't mind a thrid main row (i guess the 4th row would be the action row in the right panel). It still would look like the same as in any commonly used browser, which has three main rows (tabs, adressbar, bookmarks bar).

Currently there is only limited space. a horizontal bookmarks bar exponentially gives users more space to easily navigate. Folders in a horizontal bookmarks bar can moreover be expanded without layout shift, which is hugely distracting.

However, though not as convenient as a "bookmarks bar", it would still be a huge improvement, if the favorites panel could have "folders/collection" functionality. Just look as @DennisGaida example.

And again my example: I have multiple clients and all of those folders have the same naming convention. While I can create separate folders per client in my browser and make a "collection of all relevant websites for this client project".

Whereas in my file explorer, I may would like to "pin" the "image" folders of each client to my favorites. But all have the same name, there is no way to differenciate. Oh could I just "rename" my favorites and/or create collections. But then it's the same functionality as a bookmarks bar and my personal preference is horizontal for those.

Although if you really disagree, please at least add the functionality to the vertical favorites 🙏🙏🙏

[RemixPL1994]

@Josh65-2201 Josh65-220

I see that there was already a discussion here about bookmarks (such as in Clover)

I also miss such a solution.

At what stage is this confusion phase?

Can I get an answer, please?

1. Will the bookmarks added to the top like in the browser (e.g. Clover) be finally added? Yes or no?

2. If they are added and can be used in the same way as in Clover - how much time does it take to wait "on average" to implement and add this idea?

Unfortunately, the current use of tags does not satisfy me. I will gladly switch to Files - Preview if it allows for the same way of organizing bookmarks as Clover did.

[Josh65-2201]

It has not been decided on how/if this will be added and functionality hasn't been discussed.

[RemixPL1994]

Is there anything more I can do to try to spark the topic of discussing this functionality again or for the first time with the rest of the team?

[yaira2]

While not exactly the same as a bookmarks bar, #11900 will address some of the use cases.

[ptmrio]

I still don't get the resistance. I truly believe the "favorites" are simply the way they are, because Microsoft decided so and because of lack of competition, it still behaves the way it behaved decades ago.

I only want to ask one thing: Imagine the browser did not have a bookmark bar, how bad would it be? Nobody would use a browser without a bookmark bar. Nobody.

It is really hard to beleive, that "workspaces", while welcome, are implemented and a booksmark bar is not. Workspaces are definitley a "confusing pro/heavy user feature", while even novice users know how to use bookmarks. Well, I guess I give up my hopes. Farewell :(

[yaira2]

@ptmrio please tone down the rhetoric, we haven't made a decision on either feature. I was simply pointing out that there is another feature request that will cover some of the same use cases.

[ptmrio]

Well I understand your point and I hope it always was clear I appreciate this project and the work you devs put into it.

However I undestood files as an "explorer thought in a new way" not a "slightly better duplicate". I see the potential, Files could be what Chrome was to the Internet Explorer. I truely hope this project agressivley reinvents the file explorer. And most "reinventing" was already done in browsers, so maybe use good ol' Steve Jobs "copying" approach?

Btw just a thought: maybe the "address bar" should also converge to a browser like "search bar". Instead of typing the path (compare to browser: domain/path), we could just type the folder name (images) and a list of matching folders appear with the path below, similar to address bar suggestions ... just thought 🤷