Forum to replace mailing lists?

[philwhineray]

This is a request for comments: is it time to replace the mailing lists with a forum? A number of people have asked, the latest being #370

The mailing lists get almost no traffic, and it seems people rarely get a reply, unless it is from @ktsaou or myself. I don't think we should have both, since that will likely make the situation worse.

Please indicate your preference below - retain mailing list or move to forums. I'll make a decision in December.

Feel free to add links to your preferred forum: if we move I'll evaluate the options - ideally it will be simple to implement and administer. Additional weight will be given to anyone volunteering to do the work...

[russel]

I much prefer email lists, since the stuff arrives in my email. I really dislike forums that have no email capability or RSS/Atom feed since you have to go to them, and I never do. If a move to a forum is to be made please ensure it is one with an RSS or Atom feed so that I can use an aggregator to see things rather than having to go to the forum.

[wsw70]

Voting for forum which allows for sending an alert when there is activity (general activity or on a specific question).

An alternative (preferred in my case) would be to move the support to Stack Overflow Server Fault, with a specific firehol tag. (EDIT: I just realize that this has also been suggested in the linked issue, also with the better landing site (SF and not SO))

Further edit: Stack Exchange has also the advantage of being searchable and well indexed. Another good point are the formatting capabilities, useful for code (configuration). I tend to answer more questions there (or ay least attempt to) because filtering topics (tags) which I know better is easy.

[ahostma]

Forums sound nice but the first few weeks lots of people stop by to check, but as time goes on the numbers decline. An email list somebody posts to the list everybody gets it, not just those who remember to check the forum regularly. I would vote for Email to continue. If you gotta have a forum then it needs to support email notification. Just my opinion.

[mclaborn]

I prefer the email list. Like the others I like the "push" nature of it.

[russel]

I forgot to add that the Kotlin DIscuss and Rust User forums (both using Discourse I believe) have RSS and Email sending. This means you can get events from the forum. You have to go to the forum to add stuff, but you have the notification events either in email or in and RSS aggregator – or in my case both.

I only ever go to the forum when I see something interesting in the email or RSS notifications.

[dkebler]

With modern forums like discourse https://github.com/discourse/discourse you do not have to check in you can be notified by email for your post replies or just posts in general. Works great like with Caddy https://caddy.community/.

I was never able to use the email list. It won't allow me to register and email lists make it very hard to search old posts which helps keeping folks from asking the same questions. They also don't support any markdown which makes reading code blocks way easier. Almost ALL of the most popular open source projects run a discourse forum. At the least I agree with @wsw70 a tag at server fault would be ok and super simple to set up. As it is I have been asking questions in this issue tracker because it's the only place I can find where I can get some answers. See my #370 which prompted @philwhineray to make this issue.

[ClaymorePT]

I prefer a mix of mailing list + github issues, but I'm no stranger to forums, as long as the devs keep an eye on them.

[nick4u]

github issues + emails delivered directly only for "security related" bugs

[ThomasAH]

I preferred mailing lists in the past, but now generally prefer forums, but they need to offer subscriptions to threads and email notifications.

In the case of firehol it is extremely important that they allow markup for preformatted code and allow attachments. Being able to sign-up with your github account is important (since firehol lives here), but other methods (e.g. Twitter) might be helpful for some users, too.

From the modern forum software implementations that are free software (open source), I like NodeBB more than Discourse, because I think it provides a cleaner and easier to use interface. Some examples:

• https://forum.kopano.io/
• https://forums.focus-home.com/category/138/spintires-mudrunner

[mclaborn]

The comments above about forums make me want to change my vote in that direction. Key for me is push notification - as long as that works the rest is gravy.

[Steve-Newcomb]

I won't check or poll anything -- too busy. I agree with mclaborn. Phil, I think you should do what works best for you, but push notification is essential for me.

[dkebler]

Here is what doesn't work. https://lists.firehol.org/pipermail/firehol-support/ If you try to use the search gmane button it fails. That means it's impossible to try and find an old post about a topic. Which for me is WAY more important than getting/making new posts.

Also although I have asked to be on the list serve more than once I unable to be confirmed.

Bad confirmation string
Invalid confirmation string: 25d4fbea2881a82bac26614eeb290dde06fb5b17.

Note that confirmation strings expire approximately 3 days after the initial subscription request. If your confirmation has expired, please try to re-submit your subscription. Otherwise, re-enter your confirmation string.
Firehol-support list run by phil at firehol.org, costa at firehol.org
Firehol-support administrative interface (requires authorization)
Overview of all lists.firehol.org mailing lists

ok...I'm going to say it.....list-serves are so 20th century

I'm just going to look for and post questions here as it's the only resource working for me.

[philwhineray]

Here is what doesn't work. https://lists.firehol.org/pipermail/firehol-support/ If you try to use the search gmane button it fails. That means it's impossible to try and find an old post about a topic. Which for me is WAY more important than getting/making new posts.

Yeah gmane died some time back and never recovered properly.

Also although I have asked to be on the list serve more than once I unable to be confirmed.

Bad confirmation string
Invalid confirmation string: 25d4fbea2881a82bac26614eeb290dde06fb5b17.

Note that confirmation strings expire approximately 3 days after the initial subscription request. If your confirmation has expired, please try to re-submit your subscription. Otherwise, re-enter your confirmation string.
Firehol-support list run by phil at firehol.org, costa at firehol.org
Firehol-support administrative interface (requires authorization)
Overview of all lists.firehol.org mailing lists

ok...I'm going to say it.....list-serves are so 20th century

Interesting, no-one has reported that before, although I just got a notification you are subscribed, so I think one of your attempts must have succeeded.

I'm just going to look for and post questions here as it's the only resource working for me.

It's a perfectly valid thing to do IMO.

[dkebler]

another downside to old text based email lists is no markdown formatting and no links which makes writing, reading, and linking to other stuff a no go. That's all the stuff available right here in github issue tracker including getting particular issue notifications. The forum software I suggested has all that and more and runs a docker or their hosted service. But if you @philwhineray don't have issue with issue tracker used for support I don't. It is just that most devs don't want their issue tracker cluttered with user questions that's why they run a separate forum. ok, nuff said...I'd just close this.

[philwhineray]

I'm OK with seeking a better way... but I don't intend to rush. As I mentioned at the outset, you're not the first to ask.

From my own experience, people have a tendency to post wherever they find most convenient. I have a google alert set up and it turns up requests for help in the most random places...

[snoord]

+1 for forums.

[philwhineray]

One tiny step; I've removed from the list site all the links to Gmane; it looks like it's never coming back. I've replaced them with a recommendation for using google with the site syntax and a link to get people started.

https://lists.firehol.org/pipermail/firehol-support/

I'll update the support section of the main website shortly.

Lists are also having trouble with DMARC; I am gotten some help to resolve this; those of you who are members will have seen a test post from Nick just now.

The changes look effective: i.e. DKIM passes, so provided you don't post from a site that specifies SPF must also pass, the main should get through properly. It does mean that there is no longer a mailing list footer, nor does the subject identify the list. Apparently this is in line with the debian-user and postfix-user lists.