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folkarps / F3

ArmA 3 mission development framework customized for Folk ARPS
http://www.folkarps.com/
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Some way to take leadership of group #43

Open osarup opened 7 years ago

osarup commented 7 years ago

Need some way to take leadership of a group. Can go into briefing menu along with FA crosshair etc, or in a different tab. Not sure where else to put it.

Candidate command: https://community.bistudio.com/wiki/selectLeader

Raptoer commented 7 years ago

So the idea is that if A3's default field promotions sometimes don't pick the person we want?

SamLex commented 7 years ago

What are the use cases for this? Ingame group leadership doesn't affect very much in F3 or FA. The only thing I can think of that would be affected is group markers.

Raptoer commented 7 years ago

The other thing affects is who gets access to changing team colors, but the point still stands in that it may be a rather useless component.

osarup commented 7 years ago

Don't remember who I was discussing it with but it was mainly so that group markers follow the new leader. If this won't be the case then yeah, probably not worth it, although would be good "low priority" thing to have, because:

  1. of what Pooter's already mentioned
  2. if groups merge and (1) happens
  3. out-of-line promotions take place (i.e. new person is 2IC and someone more experienced has to lead).

Ingame group leadership doesn't affect very much in (..) FA.

If true then this is a bug not a feature. Besides, I disagree, when leadership fails confusion ensues and things start to fall apart. Anyway, probably a discussion for discord not github.

costno commented 7 years ago

The most important use case for this I think is that arma doesn't always realize that you know your group leader is dead, which leaves the group marker at some location. Take control of group would at the very least put a marker on a living player, allowing the other players to see where that group is instead of us manually inserting marker.

shadow-fa commented 6 years ago

As far as I can see, the only issue is that the group markers are not following the actual leader, and this is because the game still considers the dead leader as the leader of the group. We could simply automatically remove dead people from groups to prevent this issue. (Either in the group marker component or in a new component). Or we could tackle this in/with the New Group Markers ( Issue #69 ) (if we decide to use that).

NikkoJT commented 6 years ago

I'm concerned that having an option to take leadership could be open to abuse. However, it might be nice to have an option to give leadership in case Arma makes bad decisions - in conjunction with a solution (which I'm not qualified to suggest) for leadership not auto-transferring from a dead leader.

This may be something that's better handled server-side, like the FA Crosshair options, than as part of F3.

SamLex commented 5 years ago

Discussion from Discord regarding this and #47
https://discordapp.com/channels/101479298812121088/277196621908017162/553315038354604043

No conclusion; needs more discussion, possibly after #227 has been implemented and used "in the wild".

costno commented 3 years ago

I still think a simple 'take command of group' button is reasonable in a briefing tab (so maybe like F3 Crosshair). The risk of abuse is that someone takes control, has the marker moved to them, and then what? The actual leader can click the button and take it back. What are the fireteam members going to do? Start obeying the guy that has the map marker on him suddenly?

All the other solutions I see mentioned here seem complicated or out of our scope for awhile.

costno commented 1 year ago

My opinion here has not changed, and it still happens often enough that it would be nice to have this option.

CSDGC commented 1 year ago

With fixes such as #224, one of the prompts for this discussion has already been resolved. I stand by my (although often inappropriately conveyed) opinion of 2017 and 2019 that this could be done automatically if it is still needed.

costno commented 1 year ago

A briefing menu (maybe tied in with FA crosshair, maybe tied in somewhere else, maybe its own tab (though briefing tab bloat might be a separate issue soon)) button makes more sense to me for gameplay reasons than #227 (#224 was closed).

With dead units being pruned automatically, we lose out on a fog of war mechanic: "Where is my TL, are they alive, are they okay?". Of course, Arma doesn't always know that you have figured out that your TL isn't dead, so we want a way to ensure that the leader is updated to put markers on the right unit and give the new leader the very helpful group members UI element. I think it removes some of the drama if the game automatically tells you that someone died. Particularly with changes coming with #385 where communication with downed people will be interrupted.

The briefing menu button would be easy to implement, and makes the most sense for the chaotic dynamics of a team that has taken casualties. There have been situations where groups merge after heavy losses and the accurate leader cannot be determined by the game or preconfigured ORBAT, e.g. A1 AR and RAT joining on MAT MATG and MATAG. It's not as rare as it sounds.

I don't think we should be concerned with abuse. We have a fairly tight knit community that wants to work together, and if it actually becomes a problem that isn't solved by saying "hey don't do that" then we have an issue with an individual player, not the system.

A system could be added to #385 to have diagnose on a corpse could tell that corpses group that they are dead, and hopefully update that. But a briefing menu button should exist as a backup incase that corpse cannot be found (died in a vehicle, ran off and died alone).