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folklabs / hernehill.org.uk

Website for Herne Hill, London, UK.
http://www.hernehill.org.uk
GNU General Public License v2.0
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Groups such as traders can be collectively emailed #256

Open pmackay opened 9 years ago

pmackay commented 9 years ago

Try Mailchimp lists and campaigns with Drupal module integrations.

pmackay commented 9 years ago

@GilesGibson I've setup a test mailchimp account with a traders list. You can see campaigns here http://live-hernehill.gotpantheon.com/admin/config/services/mailchimp/campaigns. Admins and editors have permissions to create these. You can save a campaign and send emails all through Drupal interface.

GilesGibson commented 9 years ago

OK, looks a bit drupalish but will have a poke around. I assume it uploads to a mailchimp list via their API. Not quite sure what you mean by creating a campaign and send via Drupal interface. Would we log on to the web site and write/compose/design an email or via Mailchimp?

pmackay commented 9 years ago

It will be Drupalish (the site is built on Drupal!) but its an admin only thing. You could write a message via Drupal backend and send it. No need to access Mailchimp.

Have added docs tag as needs documenting or demoing. But functionality is possible.

GilesGibson commented 9 years ago

OK, can we somehow create a test group to send messages to so that we can check formatting etc and then flip to live group? How many different lists can we have (admin people, services users, event managers, group creators/admin, news editors).

pmackay commented 9 years ago

You can have as many lists as you want.

Do you have any existing email templates you want to use?

GilesGibson commented 9 years ago

how are those lists created - ideally automatically by the system? Can we also create our own manual ones?

No email templates as yet, if we email from the site I suspect they will be simple ones, at least to start with.

pmackay commented 9 years ago

The lists need to be setup in mailchimp, but the emails you would send can be written then in Drupal.

They are all manual I think.

On Mon, Dec 8, 2014 at 9:57 AM, GilesGibson notifications@github.com wrote:

how are those lists created - ideally automatically by the system? Can we also create our own manual ones?

No email templates as yet, if we email from the site I suspect they will be simple ones, at least to start with.

— Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub https://github.com/folklabs/hernehill.org.uk/issues/256#issuecomment-66045726 .

GilesGibson commented 9 years ago

If we created blank lists in mailchimp would drupal update them automatically? We dont want to have to maintain the majority of the lists manually i.e. adding in manually to the services list every time a new service comes on board.

The other drawback of leaving Mailchimp to do it all is that by having multiple lists stored on mailchimp we run up higher costs as they charge by the total number of users in all lists combined. It is starting to get pricey.

pmackay commented 9 years ago

Might be best if we skype about this or chat.

pmackay commented 9 years ago

@GilesGibson can we work out a plan with this? Should we use Mailchimp or not w.r.t. costs?

GilesGibson commented 9 years ago

I am still unclear about how Drupal would work with Mailchimp?

In the short term it may be OK just to have Drupal create mailing lists based on user functions. i.e. all those who have service listings, or are managers of groups, or have created an event. I would like to test this out, see what formatting problems we have etc with the way the Drupal editor works (or doesn't).

I would also want to know how we maintain those lists? In theory Drupal just keeps on adding to them, that's fine. However how do we manage unsubscribes?

pmackay commented 9 years ago

Drupal will sync to Mailchimp lists and you can send emails to the lists from Drupal as described above. But if you think Mailchimp is too expensive, then we have to leave that.

Drupal has a newsletter module, Simplenews, that can do newsletters. Again it helps to use a mail service. Could you check http://mandrill.com/ and see if that could work? It might be that by signing up for a separate account, it would be separate from Mailchimp.

GilesGibson commented 9 years ago

Mandrill looks interesting. If I understand it correctly we can create a snazzy template in Mailchimp and then import to Mandrill, send the text from Drupal, it pops into the template and Mandrill then sends it out - is that correct?

If so given the volume then we would also be in the free offer.

It would be a more complicated setup than I had envisaged though. I suppose i was just happy with a simple editor that actually worked and an email sender to a section of users on the web site ie.e. service listers, event people and so forth. However, managing optouts would be awkward although to be honest it isn't so critical as the bulk list.

If you think it is doable and manageable then I would be prepared to go via Mandrill. If not, then the simple life appeals to me, use an built in editor, a simple way of testing the email before it went out and then leave it at that.

GilesGibson commented 9 years ago

Can we use a simple Drupal module to email to a section of the users i.e. service listers, event managers. Can add in Mandrill later if simpler.

pmackay commented 9 years ago

I think we talked about this at a meeting sometime, but was there a problem using mass contact for this?

http://dev-hernehill.gotpantheon.com/mass_contact

It will send mails to groups based on roles.

GilesGibson commented 9 years ago

The conversation was that the method was a little crude so you were suggesting using Mandrill. As long as we can email all the service listing contacts, or anyone who has been enabled to post an event or anyone who has permission to post a news item without moderation, or all group owners then that would be fine for now. Can we somehow have a dummy group of test users so that we can check the formatting of the email before we then send to a mass mailing list.

pmackay commented 9 years ago

I think it would be good to test it first before trying Mandrill, it might be fine. There is already a Test emails group - I've added you to it. Want to try that?

http://dev-hernehill.gotpantheon.com/mass_contact

GilesGibson commented 9 years ago

How do I get access to the test emails group - not listed at the moment? Just:

image

Can I then resend the email to another group? i.e. test with test group then resend to live group.

pmackay commented 9 years ago

Did you check dev or live?

GilesGibson commented 9 years ago

Err, I just clicked on the link you gave above... looks like dev.

pmackay commented 9 years ago

Ah, just found out there is a permission for each group once setup, so I've fixed permissions for the test emails group.

GilesGibson commented 9 years ago

I have just done a test email. Couple of things. I embedded a url www.hernehill.org.uk as a hyperlink in the text. When the end user (me) clicked on the link in the email it went to the correct site but came up with a page error. It looks like it can only refer to a page on the existing site, not a www url. This may be an issue coming down the line.

How can that test email then be sent again to the live group? Currently it just disappears from the screen but has been saved a a node?

How much of a hassle would it be to change some of the default layout of the standard mass email that is sent out? Currently a little bland (no left hand margin for instance).

pmackay commented 9 years ago

I dont think there is any way to send again, you'd have to copy it before sending the 1st time.

Only way to save to a node would be use a newsletter module like simplenews.

On Fri, Jan 30, 2015 at 10:22 AM, GilesGibson notifications@github.com wrote:

I have just done a test email. Couple of things. I embedded a url www.hernehill.org.uk as a hyperlink in the text. When the end user (me) clicked on the link in the email it went to the correct site but came up with a page error. It looks like it can only refer to a page on the existing site, not a www url. This may be an issue coming down the line.

How can that test email then be sent again to the live group? Currently it just disappears from the screen but has been saved a a node?

— Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub https://github.com/folklabs/hernehill.org.uk/issues/256#issuecomment-72180983 .

GilesGibson commented 9 years ago

This does rather defeat the idea of testing before sending though.Exactly the problem that I had with the existing system when a screwed up email got sent out, looked fine in preview etc, just got mangled by the editor/html converter when it got sent, all the paragraphs merged into one long paragraph, that sort of thing.

djwesto commented 9 years ago

Hi @GilesGibson.

Please add our user accounts into the test email mailing list? It's impossible to know what you're raising an issue about when we can't see screengrabs or actual emails ourselves?

If you're sending from dev- then please add chriswells to the mailing group.

pmackay commented 9 years ago

@GilesGibson just noticed that the messages are saved:

http://dev-hernehill.gotpantheon.com/contact-messages/test-emails-test-mass-mailings-feature-super-duper-new-web-site

So you could go to Content and find the message just sent, then edit and copy content to send another.

@djwesto just added you to Testers group.

GilesGibson commented 9 years ago

That is an extreme kludge but may be OK for the immediate future. It doesn't remove the problems of formatting changing through cut and paste etc. Is there no way that it could appear in the users content list or activities list with the option to resend and with the list of groups shown again? If this is getting complex then leave, if easy to fix then great.

Sorry @djwesto I have no idea how to add people to a mailing list group. I am not listed either, just got a copy by selecting "send to myself".

pmackay commented 9 years ago

Do you want to try simplenews, that does newsletters?

GilesGibson commented 9 years ago

I am concerned about the time drain on you. We can run with the rather naff existing system and just hope that the emails are not screwed up too much. If there was a way of at least getting the default template on any email written to be tweaked then we can run with that.

How do we decide what "mail groups" get made available on the mailing list options? Is it down to being a recognised management group?

pmackay commented 9 years ago

How often would these collective emails happen?

With mass contact the groups are defined only by user roles (fairly inflexible). With simplenews you can have bespoke lists and have people added to those lists by role I think.

GilesGibson commented 9 years ago

I suspect that we would be sending out about 6-8 mass mailings in the first month of the new site - encouraging people to update their listings and so forth. Explaining some of the changes, focusing on the new features. In the short term I am happy to have relatively fixed groups, if people want to opt out then we can just delete them from the site. I assume then the group list will remove them automatically.

pmackay commented 9 years ago

I've just added simplenews on dev. You can see the new newsletter form here

http://dev-hernehill.gotpantheon.com/node/add/simplenews

This can be saved as a node, once saved it has a newsletter tab and you can choose to send a test mail or to the mailing list you associated it with.

People can be added to the mailing lists manually or we could setup Rules to do it when new people join. Initial list config might need to be manual.

@GilesGibson does this look more useful than mass contact?

GilesGibson commented 9 years ago

I think I created a news email. It went to what I think was a node. I couldn't figure out then quite what to do, I couldn't find a list of possible recipients i.e. service listers, what's on manager and so forth. It looks like I can re-use the newsletter which is good i.e. sent to a test user and then send to the live group. If so, then lets do the minimum to get this to work and run with it for he first ew weeks until v 1.01.

pmackay commented 9 years ago

The lists need to be setup manually, which could be done when migrating. Then we could probably define rules to add new people to lists. The lists are not that huge anyway?

GilesGibson commented 9 years ago

The lists are not huge, service listings are about 200 or so. Other lists are far smaller, events probably about 50, community groups about 15 or so. Would need to know they are updating automatically so some rules etc would need to be put into place.

pmackay commented 9 years ago

Its possible to create rules to add to lists but a rule is needed for each list. So can I suggest you define the specific sub-lists you need and what defines them?

GilesGibson commented 9 years ago

1.All "owners" of an entry on the service listings.

  1. All people who are "event organisers"
  2. All people who have submitted an event for moderation (not sure if this is possible).
  3. All admin people in groups.
  4. All people who have submitted a news item
  5. All people who are News editors (not needing moderation any more).
  6. All site administrators.
pmackay commented 9 years ago

Would it be ok if this was supported through the Private message functionality? I've found its possible to email everyone having the same role (which covers most of the list above) using that. And it would save lots of time compared to building manual lists using simplenews.

There is a preview this way, actual test emails could be checked by just sending to a test account or yourself, etc.

GilesGibson commented 9 years ago

If an idiot like me can easily email a group of common users, as per the list then great. Can I play and test it out?

Thanks

Giles

pmackay commented 9 years ago

Having gone round the houses on this many times, I've added back mass contact. Suggest that used for now. @GilesGibson do you want to do a walkthrough on skype later today? When do you need/want to send any emails to targetted groups?

GilesGibson commented 9 years ago

be good to do a few tests first, then use it in anger after the weekend. Need to sort out a few issues on the site i think. I have asked a few traders to edit/create their entries to see how they get on. I will then send out email to every service listed on the site to encourage them to update their details.

GilesGibson commented 9 years ago

OK, so I did the RTFM bit. Got here:

http://www.hernehill.org.uk/admin/config/services/simplenews

Bit stuck as to how I select a group of users.

pmackay commented 9 years ago

OK thats the simple news stuff that is hard to maintain a list for. I've added back mass contact as well. Check http://www.hernehill.org.uk/mass_contact.

GilesGibson commented 9 years ago

I will need to update the admin manual to reflect the changes. Could you also let me know where the menu is for editing the various email groups (test email for instance) and the rules for how the groups are populated and/or created.

pmackay commented 9 years ago

@GilesGibson do you have an understanding of this now? Are you happy editing config in http://www.hernehill.org.uk/admin/config/system/mass_contact?

GilesGibson commented 9 years ago

I think so. Just need to resolve the issue about event managers and news contributors. I have added in a few more groups of email users - event managers and news contributors.

pmackay commented 9 years ago

There is nothing stopping you adding roles to event and news contributors and configuring mass contact to be able to email people with those roles.

GilesGibson commented 9 years ago

what about all the service listings and their "owners" who have come across, can these be added in to the traders list?

pmackay commented 9 years ago

Am hoping this is now in your hands.

GilesGibson commented 9 years ago

could you let us know when the roles have been tweaked as per permissions etc. I have added in all the business users to the "traders" role for mass mailing purposes. Is the role "news contributors" ready for a mass emailing? Ditto "event contributors"?

i.e. if they are a news contributor they do not need to go via moderation and if they are an event manager/contributor they can post direct as well.