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Fig 1 - Helene's comments #71

Closed teixeirak closed 3 years ago

teixeirak commented 3 years ago

"Looking at the top panels, I don’t understand how the fluxes are being represented. Total GPP = NPP + Rauto, so the parts under the blue line should all be either NPP components or Rauto. Sure, GPP-Rauto is NEP, but it is confusing to show this as a slice, because then it seems to be decreasing ANPPwoody, which is not right. I recommend removing NEP from the figure (no yellow section), so that the sizes of the NPP components can be visualized correctly. The caption could make the point that NEP is the difference between the two sets of bars in the first panel, and between the solid blue and red dashed lines in the top right panel. Or add a third set of bars in the top left and a third panel on the top right to explicitly show NEP."

also, in fig caption:

"??? Woody mortality and branch turnover are not ANPP, they are loss terms.

And what does “NEP consists primarily of ANPPwoody” mean???

This is unnecessarily confusing. "

teixeirak commented 3 years ago

@hmullerlandau , did you understand what I was trying to communicate here, and think it's wrong, or just find the presentation confusing? The idea is that NEP is mostly ANPP_woody (i.e., coarse woody productivity), but as the stand ages, a larger proportion of that turns over, as opposed to contributing to a net increase in biomass. So, ANPP_woody would be the yellow (NEP) + green (ANPP_woody.turnvoer). (Of course there's some lag between the actual production and turnover, but in reality ANPP is often measured as turnover (litterfall, branch production) as opposed to actual production).

image

I'm tyring to think of how to better present this. I like having NEP in there somehow because it parallels the Odum figure (at least as currently shown), and is such an important concept.

hmullerlandau commented 3 years ago

Sorry, I just saw this now.

I kind of understood what you meant after mulling it over, but I thought it was confusing, and in the case of old growth not necessarily correct. Even for successional stands, we don't really know net fluxes into and out of soil organic matter pools etc. over succession - I would be surprised if they remained exactly constant over successional time.

At least for tropical forests almost all "measurements" of forest ANPP_woody are based on net increase in estimated biomass of individual trees. They have nothing to do with branch production and indeed entirely miss branch turnover. I can't think of any measures of ANPP_woody.turnover, and I don't remember that concept being introduced anywhere other than this figure. It doesn't align with measurements being reviewed in the bulk of the article.

Helene

On Fri, Feb 26, 2021 at 3:27 PM Kristina Anderson-Teixeira < notifications@github.com> wrote:

@hmullerlandau https://github.com/hmullerlandau , did you understand what I was trying to communicate here, and think it's wrong, or just find the presentation confusing? The idea is that NEP is mostly ANPP_woody (i.e., coarse woody productivity), but as the stand ages, a larger proportion of that turns over, as opposed to contributing to a net increase in biomass. So, ANPP_woody would be the yellow (NEP) + green (ANPP_woody.turnvoer). (Of course there's some lag between the actual production and turnover, but in reality ANPP is often measured as turnover (litterfall, branch production) as opposed to actual production).

[image: image] https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/6355854/109351045-96530880-7846-11eb-96de-9099e7ab205a.png

I'm tyring to think of how to better present this. I like having NEP in there somehow because it parallels the Odum figure (at least as currently shown), and is such an important concept.

— You are receiving this because you were mentioned. Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub https://github.com/forc-db/ERL-review/issues/71#issuecomment-786876528, or unsubscribe https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/ADVG5NYAUHE4L2CEJGVNP4LTA772FANCNFSM4YG4TKDQ .

-- Helene Muller-Landau hmullerlandau@gmail.com +507 6471-5214 (cell)

teixeirak commented 3 years ago

@hmullerlandau , do you think the version below addresses this well?

image

I need to submit today, so please let me know ASAP if you still find it problematic.

A few notes:

hmullerlandau commented 3 years ago

Yes, that is clearer. I do wonder, however, if I wouldn't have stumbled over it if I didn't already know what it meant...

On Mon, Mar 1, 2021 at 8:59 AM Kristina Anderson-Teixeira < notifications@github.com> wrote:

@hmullerlandau https://github.com/hmullerlandau , do you think the version below addresses this well?

[image: image] https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/6355854/109506916-2cb44380-7a6c-11eb-9c03-a64de5c8f019.png

I need to submit today, so please let me know ASAP if you still find it problematic.

A few notes:

  • I want to keep the NEP term because it parallels the Odum figure and is a key concept.
  • It's important to consider that woody turnover includes mortality, not just branch turnover.
  • It's true that we say little about woody turnover elsewhere in the manuscript, but this is because the data are extremely sparse. I still think it's the best way to present this conceptually.
  • I modified this so that coarse root production/ turnover would be included with woody productivity and turnover, as opposed to lumping all BNPP together.

— You are receiving this because you were mentioned. Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub https://github.com/forc-db/ERL-review/issues/71#issuecomment-787969664, or unsubscribe https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/ADVG5N5YHYKRJOYVZZCYSQLTBOMU3ANCNFSM4YG4TKDQ .

-- Helene Muller-Landau hmullerlandau@gmail.com +507 6471-5214 (cell)

teixeirak commented 3 years ago

I think it's at least quite a bit improved, and I at least don't see any way to improve, so I'll keep it as is. Thanks for your help with that!