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frederic-mahe / Hardware-Target-Game-Database

Flash-cart optimized file and folder layouts.
GNU General Public License v3.0
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Mega EverDrive Suggestions #609

Open RastaJedi opened 3 years ago

RastaJedi commented 3 years ago

This isn't really an issue, more of a discussion/suggestion/ideas, but I wasn't sure where or how else to discuss it.

I was considering adding one of the following:

or

or even

What do guys think? I know the 32X directory is already present, I was just using it as a reference. Could also potentially make a separate SMDB for Mega EverDrive Pro, but for the time being, I was planning on building the SegaCD.txt pack and dropping it onto my Mega EverDrive Pro SD, along with the full Mega EverDrive SMDB pack.

Edit: actually, now that I'm looking, it appears the MegaSD SMDB is probably a better SMDB to use for Mega EverDrive Pro than just dropping a pack built from SegaCD.txt. Perhaps have the Mega EverDrive SMDB have the aforementioned placeholders, and then a separate SMDB just for the Mega EverDrive Pro, which will (I assume) be almost the same as the MegaSD one? I think it'd be better as a supplemental (to the Mega EverDrive SMDB) file rather than a clone of the Mega EverDrive SMDB PLUS the CD stuff. That way, you could build your Mega pack, then, if you have a Pro, build your Pro supplement, and just drop it in the aforementioned placeholder directory.

Edit 2: now that I'm looking even deeper, I see the MegaSD SMDB doesn't even have regular ROMs. So, would that be a supplement to the Mega EverDrive SMDB? Are we supposed to just use that one for the Mega EverDrive Pro as well? I guess they'd have to be a bit different, since the MSD can do the 32X+CD games if you have the MSDEXP adapter, but not the EverDrive.

Also, pretty unrelated, but should we update the SD2SNES SMDB filename to be Super EverDrive & FXPAK Pro (SD2SNES) SMDB.txt or similar? I would imagine in the not-too-distant future, folks new to the scene may not know what an SD2SNES is.

tjanas commented 3 years ago

Unfortunately renaming files will break git commit history.

RastaJedi commented 3 years ago

I see. Could we make a new one that was a duplicate... Possibly slowly phase out the other (I don't know how you could do that without people thinking it's something that is usable). Or just make it fresh and delete the old? It'd still be in the old commit history, right? Or, make the new one, starting as a duplicate, and then stop updating the old but don't delete it (yet) and then make a README.md for the EverDrive SMDB directory, which explains the purpose of each file? I was thinking about suggesting this anyways, but it'd be helpful in this scenario: "The SD2SNES SMDB is obsolete and is kept for historical reasons. Use the FXPAK Pro one" or "The SD2SNES SMDB and the FXPAK Pro SMDBs are identical (SD2SNES flash cartridge was renamed to FXPAK Pro)"... Just some thoughts. Sorry this is not a very eloquent comment, just trying to get my thoughts out before I forget them, while also fairly busy. Or like make the master branch a historical branch and rename it in a newer branch (this seems like probably the worst option).

Or you could just leave it as is but still make the README explaining that the SD2SNES SMDB is also for FXPAK Pro.

I guess if people want it bad enough, they can figure it out, so none of this (in regards to the SNES SMDB) really seems very necessary (at least for now), was just throwing out some ideas I had.

tjanas commented 3 years ago

I think a README is the best solution. We have README content for the build and parse scripts, so it would be a good idea for any additional information too.

tjanas commented 3 years ago

I’m not convinced that Sega CD and Master System placeholders should be in the Genesis pack. Keep in mind that the existing pack is also a drop-in pack for Noir and Mister and non-Pro ED.

RastaJedi commented 3 years ago

That is a good point. I hadn't really thought about non-Genesis hardware. Fair enough! Feel free to close this issue... unless anyone else wants to discuss!

tjanas commented 3 years ago

I’m not sure if we should maintain both a MegaSD pack and a SegaCD pack, and I’m not sure of the use case for either one.

RastaJedi commented 3 years ago

Yeah, I really wasn't sure which to use with the ED Pro. I went with the MSD pack, but am unsure if there would be differences if we had an actual Pro SMDB. It would be nice if the scripts could have options, but they'd be specific to the SMDB so that'd be a pain. Because it'd be cool if we ran a universal Pro & MSD pack but could enable or disable one or the other (or neither) to produce only those versions. Even if MiSTer gets Sega CD support (just a theoretical example), I think you could still use the MSD pack. I only looked at the Sega CD SMDB briefly, but I did notice there is one 'World' region directory and not separate regions like the MSD pack.

Edit: it Looks like Frederic removed the SegaCD SMDB, citing it was replaced by the MegaSD one. But then SmokeMonster recommitted it. I'm sure there was a reason he rebuilt it.

Infinitum8t commented 3 years ago

The SegaCD pack, (SCD), is over 100GB, while the MegaSD pack, (MSD), comes in over a hefty 200GB. Most of the ROMs in the SCD are in the MSD. In my opinion, the MSD is better organized, being broken down into US, Europe, and Japan, while the SCD has only the World directory. I don't recall where I read that the MSD has a directory with sound files specifically designed for the MSD.

A suggestion would be to create a more complete SegaCD pack using the MegaSD file structure, then streamline the MegaSD pack with MegaSD only files.

RastaJedi commented 3 years ago

That's actually not a bad idea at all. I did notice the MSD pack has the MD+ patched ROMs. I just am not sure if it's necessary for them to not be in the SegaCD pack. They aren't necessarily MSD specific, even though for now MSD and EDP are the most common ways to play them (or the only way, but I think some emulators support MD+).

I guess one argument to keep them out of SegaCD pack is for those with original SCD hardware. While I'm sure it's highly unlikely no one person will burn the entire set of ROMs in the SegaCD pack to disc, it still makes good sense to me.

If others like this idea, I can try to help bring the regional organization to the SegaCD pack. I still feel we should have an EDP pack or have the directories the MSD pack creates be more generic, or also have it create EDP dirwctories.

Infinitum8t commented 3 years ago

@RastaJedi You're saying the MD+ patched ROMs can be played using a Mega EverDrive Pro? I wasn't aware of that. It would be best to confirm this.

I can respect the argument to keep the MD+ patched ROMs out of the SegaCD pack, for those with original SCD hardware, yet would such owners even use this database? I would think they'd simply look for the redump or a version of the CD-ROM and bypass the database altogether. I'd be curious why SmokeMonster recommitted the SegaCD SMDB.

Regional organization to the SCD pack would maintain that theme the other EverDrive packs have. When I look at the other packs, they look neat, tidy, and well organized.

What would be examples of a MegaED Pro directory? If the MegaED Pro can use the same files as the MSD pack, then why not rename the SMDB file to the "MegaSD & MegaED Pro", or something similar?

RastaJedi commented 3 years ago

@Infinitum8t Confirmed: https://m.youtube.com/watch?t=342&v=JOyePyw5yfA&feature=youtu.be

I agree; I don't think many with original hardware would use this, but I do think at least one person would. Maybe to just help them have the whole US collection e.g. or just so they can compare what they have with the full set or maybe they'd use it with a basic flash cart and MD+. I'm also very curious as to why he recreated the file in the DB. His commit message didn't really touch on why it was necessary to exist in addition to MSD pack.

CD: From Scratch Rebuild …

Parsed from the latest Redump for official releases, several additions and updates. [At]SmokeMonsterPacks SmokeMonsterPacks committed on Dec 23, 2020

As far as MEDP vs MSD goes, I really could not tell you if there would need to be entries specific to either or. If not, yes, I feel a rename of the SMDB file and the directory structure is the best option, and combine them into one.

tjanas commented 3 years ago

My feeling is that the file should be removed completely.

tjanas commented 3 years ago

I don’t think CD audio enhanced Genesis games belong in a pack (likewise SNES MSU-1 are not included in a pack either)

Infinitum8t commented 3 years ago

@RastaJedi I'm not sure what was confirmed. The link sent me to the Piers Solar with CD Audio point in the video. I went through the entire video to see if I missed something. Could you please clarify?

I agree; I don't think many with original hardware would use this, but I do think at least one person would. Maybe to just help them have the whole US collection e.g. or just so they can compare what they have with the full set or maybe they'd use it with a basic flash cart and MD+.

You make a valid point, yet can't the same be accomplished with the MSD pack? It is more thorough with the amount of releases and better organized in categories. If a person wanted all the US releases, they would need to pick through the 238 ROM directories in the SegaCD pack. The MegaSD pack has 84 and 62 in two US subdirectories, (A-L) and (M-Z). Quick and painless to select. As a comparison, the SCD pack has 161 US releases, 9 Europe, and 66 Japan releases. With 32X and unlicensed releases tossed in there. The MSD pack has 146 US releases, 95 Europe, and 118 Japan releases. With 32X and unlicensed located elsewhere. There's no Piers Solar and less BIOS files in SCD. There is an English Translation release, Game No Kandume, along with two more (Public Domain) Homebrew releases, Bad Apple Cinepak and SCDBook E-Book Reader - Vol. 0 in SCD, missing in MSD. Hacks and the rest of Homebrews upon quick inspection look equal. The more one compares the two, the more one wonders why there's a need for the SegaCD pack. If I had to guess, it would be that the SCD pack has every SegaCD ROM without the regional duplication of MSD. That may be SmokeMonster's motive to keep the SCD pack.

RastaJedi commented 3 years ago

I'm not sure what was confirmed. The link sent me to the Piers Solar with CD Audio point in the video. I went through the entire video to see if I missed something. Could you please clarify? @Infinitum8t he's not using the Pier Solar CD with real SCD hardware, so I can only assume it's a MD+ patched ROM.

As far as folks with real hardware go, I wasn't implying the directory structure of the SCD should remain intact. I was thinking like you said earlier, have it reflect exactly how the MSD pack looks, without the MSD/ED-specific entries. And then make the MSD pack be only those specific entries, i.e, a supplement to the SCD pack. But if hardly anyone will use the SCD pack only, then it may not be worth the separation. As long as there aren't features specific to MSD or MEDP, then I guess all we need is one pack that works for everything. A MED pack then a MEDP/MSD pack.

@tjanas they already are in the MSD pack. And I am grateful for this. I can't wait to try them! It will be so much easier having a place I can look to easily see every one of them that exist (well, most of them anyways). I didn't know the MSU-1 ROMs weren't in the SNES packs. That's kinda unfortunate.

Edit: apparently the implementation Krikz uses is called msu-md (the driver). Looks like there's a way to patch the ROMs real-time. So, now I see a reason to keep MEDP and MSD separate. Perhaps with just the SCD pack (updated, of course), for MEDP, or just rename SCD to MEDP and use that. A lot of different options here; I'm not sure what's the best (ref: https://www.retrorgb.com/mega-everdrive-pro-firmware-update.html)

tjanas commented 3 years ago

Using software like romcenter with a nointro dat is a better way to maintain and verify a complete or even curated nointro set

RastaJedi commented 3 years ago

I see. So, for anyone who'd want to use it on original hardware, the SCD pack isn't really necessary. Except for maybe hacks and such. (Are hacks and translations listed in no-intro?). I'm not necessarily arguing for the need to keep a pure SCD pack, I think it wouldn't be used very much, but I do think we should somehow have something for MEDP. Separate from MSD, or bundled with MSD and rename the MSD SMDB and have like sets common to both in the main folders, with a MSD subdirectory for all of its specifics. (And one for MEDP if there does happen to have anything specific for it).

Edit: it does seem even MSD can play MSU-MD patched ROMs.

Infinitum8t commented 3 years ago

@RastaJedi

As far as folks with real hardware go, I wasn't implying the directory structure of the SCD should remain intact. I was thinking like you said earlier, have it reflect exactly how the MSD pack looks, without the MSD/ED-specific entries. And then make the MSD pack be only those specific entries, i.e, a supplement to the SCD pack. But if hardly anyone will use the SCD pack only, then it may not be worth the separation. As long as there aren't features specific to MSD or MEDP, then I guess all we need is one pack that works for everything. A MED pack then a MEDP/MSD pack.

Agreed. One (generic) pack to rule them all. A supplement MEDP/MSD pack for specific features.