fritzing / fritzing-app

Fritzing desktop application
http://fritzing.org
Other
4.04k stars 833 forks source link

Please make development intentions clear #3706

Open ChadBailey opened 4 years ago

ChadBailey commented 4 years ago

After a recent run-in letting the magic smoke out of some electronics I wondered to myself, "Can I simulate circuits so that I can test them before building them?" That is the question that lead me to Fritzing.

When I was on the website, I was asked for a $8 donation... (OK, 8 euro but I don't know how to do that sign and the actual amount is unimportant to my point). My first thought was, "Cool, an open source project which is requiring payment... I can get behind this!" My next thought was "Why are they asking for donations for development when they've only released 2 updates in the past 5 years?"

When I begin unearthing the layers searching, I find things like this https://github.com/fritzing/fritzing-app/issues/3435

Truly I'm left very confused and conflicted. Do I donate to help revive this project? Are the original owners just using the money donations on hookers as the aforementioned talk alludes to? If so, why not fork it? If not - maybe this is a new addition to the page to re-ignite dev work? If so, why has it been a year and a half since then? I have so many questions and no answers.

Truth be told, I would rather have spent $8 than the time and effort I've spent trying to figure out if I should toss a coin in the hat so to speak. I know that if I feel this way - very likely most visitors feel this way. Worse yet, I'm sure they wouldn't bother investigating and will just download the latest release on github foregoing the donation option. I don't blame them for doing so, but I for some reason decided to dig in and attempt understanding.

TLDR; if you want donations, make it super clear that they are to rekindle dev work. If the donations are actually being used for that, make it clear on the page that the project is under new management/in process of being revived. If they aren't being used for that, please get over your nostalgia of the name and fork the project already. Whatever you do, don't call it "libre-fritzing" or "free-fritzing" because those names suck.

KjellMorgenstern commented 4 years ago

We consider #3435 solved and closed, I think it should answer those questions already. However, the complete ticket is quite tedious to read and understand, so I try to summarize it here.

Fritzing development had ceased for three years, until I became maintainer. I understand you want to know about the usage of the payments. I believe the best way to answer this is to deliver a perfect and up to date software. Unfortunately, we inherited quite a backlog of technical and non-technical issues. Development is slower than I wish it were, but with the CI and the new website, I think we are on the right track and increasing speed. Ups, sounds like one of those manager reports from my former employer :-)

The problem of Fritzing was that there were simply no developers anymore, also due to a lack of money. The payments go to the development of Fritzing. Although many still consider it a donation due to the open-source nature, the payments are not donations; tax is paid. A lot has happened since I became maintainer and primary developer. To name a few things, only listing technical aspects, not legal or business: Repair the builds, setup a continuous integration, update for more recent platforms (Window 10, MacOS Mojave, Ubuntu, Fedora), several hundred github issues, several thousand support emails, one new release so far, several emergency fixes to the website, finally migrating the 2010 website implementation to a 2020 software stack, a new forum server, moving the blog from wordpress to a static page, a dedicated email server (increasing email delivery from 95% to more than 99%) and automated testing for the website. Because of the website rewrite, there was low activity on fritzing app repo the last months. In progress are

On the website, right above the payment form, we state "... This way, we can ensure future releases, bugfixes, and features". We could elaborate this more, and I did in the forum, in issue #3435 and others. On the webpage, people don't need to bother with the project's struggles if they don't want to. I'll prepare a similar story for the Fritzing Blog, and will mention this on the main website.

Does this answer your questions?

KjellMorgenstern commented 4 years ago

PS: Fritzing can help you avoiding magic smoke. But it is not a simulator, by most definitions of a simulator. This is the first point in our FAQ. Fritzing can detect if you connect Vin to GND by highlighting the connections. But it won't warn you if the 4Ohm resistor between 12V and GND does not have sufficient cooling ;-) or try to simulate any of those Arduino or Esp boards variations.

WimberleyTech commented 4 years ago
Chad,

Thank you so very much for your post.  It pissed me off so much that
I am going to make another direct donation to Kjell.  This will be
my third.

In the many many years I have lived on this earth, I have learned
that one can place people into two categories: givers and takers.

I have only posted on this group a couple of times, but I watch the
thread EVERY DAY.  

Kjell, thank you for the good work you are doing and also the others
that I think are helping in the background.  Keep up the good work.

Please confirm that your paypal account has not changed since my Oct
23 transaction.  

doug

On 8/17/2020 11:07 PM, Chad Bailey
  wrote:

  After a recent run-in letting the magic smoke out of some
    electronics I wondered to myself, "Can I simulate circuits so
    that I can test them before building them?" That is the question
    that lead me to Fritzing.
  When I was on the website, I was asked for a $8 donation...
    (OK, 8 euro but I don't know how to do that sign and the actual
    amount is unimportant to my point). My first thought was, "Cool,
    an open source project which is requiring payment... I can get
    behind this!" My next thought was "Why are they asking for
    donations for development when they've only released 2 updates
    in the past 5 years?"
  When I begin unearthing the layers searching, I find things
    like this #3435
  Truly I'm left very confused and conflicted. Do I donate to
    help revive this project? Are the original owners just using the
    money donations on hookers as the aforementioned talk alludes
    to? If so, why not fork it? If not - maybe this is a new
    addition to the page to re-ignite dev work? If so, why has it
    been a year and a half since then? I have so many questions and
    no answers.
  Truth be told, I would rather have spent $8 than the time and
    effort I've spent trying to figure out if I should toss a coin
    in the hat so to speak. I know that if I feel this way - very
    likely most visitors feel this way. Worse yet, I'm sure they
    wouldn't bother investigating and will just download the latest
    release on github foregoing the donation option. I don't blame
    them for doing so, but I for some reason decided to dig in and
    attempt understanding.
  TLDR; if you want donations, make it super clear that they are
    to rekindle dev work. If the donations are actually being used
    for that, make it clear on the page that the project is under
    new management/in process of being revived. If they aren't being
    used for that, please get over your nostalgia of the name and
    fork the project already. Whatever you do, don't call it
    "libre-fritzing" or "free-fritzing" because those names suck.
  —
    You are receiving this because you are subscribed to this
    thread.
    Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub, or unsubscribe.
  [

{ "@context": "http://schema.org", "@type": "EmailMessage", "potentialAction": { "@type": "ViewAction", "target": "https://github.com/fritzing/fritzing-app/issues/3706", "url": "https://github.com/fritzing/fritzing-app/issues/3706", "name": "View Issue" }, "description": "View this Issue on GitHub", "publisher": { "@type": "Organization", "name": "GitHub", "url": "https://github.com" } } ]

KjellMorgenstern commented 4 years ago

@WimberleyTech Thanks for your support, my account didn't change.

ChadBailey commented 4 years ago

@KjellMorgenstern forgive me, I posted a bug report asking for clarity yet I myself was not clear.

Thanks for summarizing all of that for me, super helpful. I will outline what I think are clear steps to fulfill what I'm asking.

Regarding using as a circuit simulator - just because that question lead me here doesn't necessarily mean I expect fritzing to be able to deliver that functionality. This does tie in to an important point though. Questions like this should be easily answered by the website particularly if the user can't simply download the program to see if it does the thing they hoped.

Requesting

Benefit Hypothesis

WimberleyTech commented 4 years ago
You've sent €15.39 EUR to kjell
Spend this on your favorite Hefeweizen, or something else that
  brings you joy!!

On 8/18/2020 1:06 PM, Kjell wrote:

  @WimberleyTech
    Thanks for your support, my account didn't change.
  —
    You are receiving this because you were mentioned.
    Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub, or unsubscribe.
  [

{ "@context": "http://schema.org", "@type": "EmailMessage", "potentialAction": { "@type": "ViewAction", "target": "https://github.com/fritzing/fritzing-app/issues/3706#issuecomment-675631207", "url": "https://github.com/fritzing/fritzing-app/issues/3706#issuecomment-675631207", "name": "View Issue" }, "description": "View this Issue on GitHub", "publisher": { "@type": "Organization", "name": "GitHub", "url": "https://github.com" } } ]

erm3nda commented 4 years ago

I know nothing but this:

https://web.archive.org/web/20190222165456/https://fritzing.org/download/ Then click your desired version, archive.org will redirect to archived link automatically. https://web.archive.org/web/20170106151522if_/http://fritzing.org/media/downloads/fritzing.0.9.3b.64.pc.zip

WimberleyTech commented 4 years ago
Congratulations m3nda!  You found version 0.9.3b.64.pc!!  Enjoy

On 8/21/2020 10:29 PM, m3nda wrote:

  I know nothing but this:
  https://web.archive.org/web/20190222165456/https://fritzing.org/download/
    Then click your desired version, archive.org will redirect to
    archived link automatically.
    https://web.archive.org/web/20170106151522if_/http://fritzing.org/media/downloads/fritzing.0.9.3b.64.pc.zip
  —
    You are receiving this because you were mentioned.
    Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub, or unsubscribe.
  [

{ "@context": "http://schema.org", "@type": "EmailMessage", "potentialAction": { "@type": "ViewAction", "target": "https://github.com/fritzing/fritzing-app/issues/3706#issuecomment-678587227", "url": "https://github.com/fritzing/fritzing-app/issues/3706#issuecomment-678587227", "name": "View Issue" }, "description": "View this Issue on GitHub", "publisher": { "@type": "Organization", "name": "GitHub", "url": "https://github.com" } } ]

el-j commented 4 years ago

Hi, Long Time No "read".

First of all thank you Kjell for all this work done. I had your position a while and I know how much work the fritzing universe is...

Anyways I needed a fritzing version for osx Catalina and I was a bit shocked that I can download fritzing for free from computer bild but not from fritzing.org.

I am not sure if a "force" to pay is the right way to go...but I understand it.

Besides that I build a GitHub action release flow on my fork that builds the current master for osx Catalina and pushes it to a private nextcloud Share. The DMG is running, and I will do some tests with it the next days as I need it for a project myself.

So thanks again for all your work. If you are interested in migrating the builds to GitHub actions instead of Travis let me know.

So FYI: this master build is running on osx Catalina 15.6 ;)

d3cline commented 4 years ago

My 2 cents, charging for GPL software is kinda sketch. I am going to go learn KiCAD. This kinda bums me out since I released a lot of free and open source content with fritzing because I expected it to remain free. Now that content is behind a pay wall. Trying to move software like this to a paid structure just feels wrong, even if I understand the altruistic motives. Maybe the community should come together or let it die, move to a stronger platform etc. Darwin! glhf

KjellMorgenstern commented 4 years ago

Well, the community is an amazing, and huge. I want to take this oportunity to thank everyone who is supporting the project, with their payment or even with their work. Fritzing is alive and kicking ass, thanks to you!

@d3cline Few people can afford to work for free over multiple years. But I don't think that means we have to scrap the project, including all the content that was created for it. Obviously I don't follow this inverse "rather dead than red" idea. I am curious, what kind of content did you provide? Did it really not help with your business or paid job in any way?

ChadBailey commented 4 years ago

My 2 cents, charging for GPL software is kinda sketch. I am going to go learn KiCAD. This kinda bums me out since I released a lot of free and open source content with fritzing because I expected it to remain free. Now that content is behind a pay wall. Trying to move software like this to a paid structure just feels wrong, even if I understand the altruistic motives. Maybe the community should come together or let it die, move to a stronger platform etc. Darwin! glhf

This is the real problem behind putting the software behind a paywall. First, it's not really fair to anyone who contributed prior to it being put behind a paywall. Next, it causes unnecessary strain to downstream dependent projects. If it had been that way up front, I don't think there would be a problem.

At the end of the day, it really seems kinda clear that if no one has the time or money just let the project do whatever it's going to do... fall into obsolescence, hand over to someone else to maintain, be forked, be rewritten from the ground up in QBASIC by a random benevolent stranger... this is the way of all software right?

ChadBailey commented 4 years ago

My last post was a little more focused on the merit so making a second regarding the original bug report purpose.

Just want to say that while the advice I gave wasn't followed exactly, I do see that you've made effort to improve to this end and thanks for that.

WimberleyTech commented 4 years ago

I grew up in the "Age of Aquarius." (telling my age) What happened? 8 bucks or euros...whatever. Hell I have been donating directly to Kjell just because I feel like it is the right thing to do. You can download the source, n'cest pas? Anyway, I am happy to see progress on the tool and looking forward to a new release. Peace!

failiz commented 3 years ago

Should we close this issue? It is not a bug. The discussion can continue in the forum if anyone needs to add something else.

hkienle commented 3 years ago

I have been donating directly to Kjell

How can I do that?

KjellMorgenstern commented 3 years ago

The simplest way is via https://fritzing.org/download

I operate the site, and since a few weeks also the company "Fritzing GmbH" behind it. All the previous organizations have been integrated or merged into this one company. Things have been cleaned up a lot, and i am getting to put more effort into the application itself again.

hkienle commented 3 years ago

Thanks, great to hear!

Edit: I just donated, keeping my fingers crossed for a new release soon. I guess the current one is missing many bug fixes!? There is no lack of ideas from the community how to run things -- so here is one from me on top: Give people a chance to set the amount (above 8 Euros) for themselves. Thanks for tackling the difficult task bringing Fritzing back on track!