Book 05: Sentence 099 - Githubissues

ftyers commented 10 months ago

imatge

# sent_id = Book_05_-_The_Omens.txt:99
# text = In chiqujmoli, cacentetl tototl, iuhqujn quauhchochopitli: auh veca quauhtla in jchan.
# text[norm] = In chiquimoli, ca centetl tototl, iuhquin cuauhchochopitli: auh huehca cuauhtla in ichan.
# text[orig] = I·nchiqujmoli·,·cacentetl·to·totl·,·iuh·qujn·quauh·chochopitli·:·auh·veca¶quauhtla·injchan·.
# text[eng] = The linnet, it is a bird, like the wood-pecker: but far in the forest is its home.
# text[osp] = Tambien tenjan por mal aguero, a las bozes del pito: [...]
# references = A&D/180:4
# tagged = 100.00%
# lemmatised = 100.00%
# analysed = 100.00%
# heads = 100.00%
# relations = 31.25%
1   In  in  DET|SCONJ   _   _   2   _   _   Orig=I·nchiqujmoli|Folio=13v,13v|Paragraph=6,6|Line=1,1|Norm=In
2   chiqujmoli  chiquimoli  NOUN    _   State=Abs   6   _   _   Orig=I·nchiqujmoli|Folio=13v,13v|Paragraph=6,6|Line=1,1|Norm=chiquimoli|Analysed=Yes
3   ,   ,   PUNCT   _       6   punct   _   Folio=13v|Paragraph=6|Line=1|Norm=,|Analysed=Yes
4-5 cacentetl   _   _   _   _   _   _   _   _
4   ca  cah|ca  VERB    _   _   6   _   _   Orig=I·nchiqujmoli|Folio=13v,13v|Paragraph=6,6|Line=1,1|Norm=ca
5   centetl ce  NUM _   NumType=Clf 6   _   _   Orig=I·nchiqujmoli|Folio=13v,13v|Paragraph=6,6|Line=1,1|Norm=centetl|Gloss=una.pieza|Split=cen·tetl
6   tototl  tototl  NOUN    _   State=Abs   0   root    _   Orig=to·totl|Folio=13v,13v|Paragraph=6,6|Line=1,1|Norm=tototl|Gloss=pájaro|Analysed=Yes
7   ,   ,   PUNCT   _       9   punct   _   Folio=13v|Paragraph=6|Line=1|Norm=,|Analysed=Yes
8   iuhqujn iuhquin ADV _       9   _   _   Orig=iuh·qujn|Folio=13v,13v|Paragraph=6,6|Line=2,2|Norm=iuhquin|AmbigNorm=True|Override=False|Gloss=así|Analysed=Yes
9   quauhchochopitli    cuauhchochopitli    NOUN    _   State=Abs   6   _   _   Orig=quauh·chochopitli|Folio=13v,13v|Paragraph=6,6|Line=2,2|Norm=cuauhchochopitli|Analysed=Yes
10  :   :   PUNCT   _       13  punct   _   Folio=13v|Paragraph=6|Line=2|Norm=:|Analysed=Yes
11  auh auh CCONJ   _   _   13  _   _   Folio=13v|Paragraph=6|Line=2|Norm=auh|Gloss=y
12  veca    huehca  ADV _       13  _   _   Folio=13v|Paragraph=6|Line=2|Norm=huehca|Gloss=lejos|Analysed=Yes
13  quauhtla    cuauhtla    NOUN    _   _   6   _   _   Folio=13v|Paragraph=6|Line=3|Norm=cuauhtla|Gloss=bosque
14  in  in  DET|SCONJ   _   _   15  _   _   Orig=injchan|Folio=13v|Paragraph=6|Line=3|Norm=in
15  jchan   chantli NOUN    _   Number[psor]=Sing|Person[psor]=3|State=Poss 13  _   _   Orig=injchan|Folio=13v|Paragraph=6|Line=3|Norm=ichan|Gloss=su.casa|Analysed=Yes
16  .   .   PUNCT   _       6   punct   _   Folio=13v|Paragraph=6|Line=3|Norm=.|Analysed=Yes

ftyers commented 9 months ago

Questions:

Treatment of in when followed by a noun, or "do we accept a determiner reading of "in"
What is the subject? centetl tototl, if so, what is in chiquimoli? dislocated ? Or is In chiquimoli the subject and centetl tototl the predicate?
What should we do with ca ? Is it a copula, or a verb, if it is a copula do we treat it with cop, or should we do VERB + xcomp for the predicate and then convert it for publishing in official UD?
Is the analysis of the numeral centetl good, e.g. it's a numeral + classifier, are there other classifiers, how many, is this a good way to analyse them?
What shall we do with iuhquin cuauhchochopitli, if iuhquin is modifying cuauhchochopitli a NOUN/case then it should be ADP, but we probably don't like that (see answers-20111108082304AAEbrNs_ans-0010 in UD_English-EWT train)
For the conjoined clause, in ichan is the subject and huehca cuauhtla is the predicate?

Lguyogiro commented 9 months ago

Treatment of in when followed by a noun, or "do we accept a determiner reading of "in"

Yeah I think we must accept the determiner reading pre-nominally unless it is obviously a clause (doesn't seem like the case here).

What is the subject? centetl tototl, if so, what is in chiquimoli? dislocated ? Or is In chiquimoli the subject and centetl tototl the predicate?

This is an equational type construction, where chiquimoli is preceded by in, so I think centetl tototl is good as the root, and chiquimoli is the subj.

What should we do with ca ? Is it a copula, or a verb, if it is a copula do we treat it with cop, or should we do VERB + xcomp for the predicate and then convert it for publishing in official UD?

Generally I like treatment of ca as AUX, so maybe in this case cop, and then aux when it precedes a verb? Not sure. (I think elsewhere we said it has a discourse relation, which, on thinking a bit more about, I'm not sure I'm convinced of).

ftyers commented 9 months ago

Generally I like treatment of ca as AUX, so maybe in this case cop, and then aux when it precedes a verb? Not sure. (I think elsewhere we said it has a discourse relation, which, on thinking a bit more about, I'm not sure I'm convinced of).

Is this cah or ca? I was assuming it was ca. If this is cah then it should probably be AUX/cop.

imatge

From the docs:

discourse:

This is used for interjections and other discourse particles and elements (which are not clearly linked to the structure of the sentence, except in an expressive way). We generally follow the guidelines of what the Penn Treebanks count as an INTJ. They define this to include: interjections (oh, uh-huh, Welcome), fillers (um, ah), and discourse markers (well, like, actually, but not you know).

aux:

An aux (auxiliary) of a clause is a function word associated with a verbal predicate that expresses categories such as tense, mood, aspect, voice or evidentiality. It is often a verb (which may have non-auxiliary uses as well).

I'd say this is closer to PART/discourse than to AUX/aux.

What does Lockhart say?

Lguyogiro commented 9 months ago

Yeah, I guess if they say actually is discourse, we should do the same with ca

ftyers commented 9 months ago

imatge

Remaining questions:

What is the POS of iuhquin and what is its relation to cuauhchochopitli?
What is the structure of iuhquin cuauhchochopitli with respect to tototl?

Lguyogiro commented 9 months ago

I'm not sure about the upos of iuhquin...I think maybe ADJ. In the analysis here, I'm assuming of gloss of e.g. "a bird that is similar to a woodpecker"

ftyers commented 9 months ago

Some useful information from Launey: imatge

And Andrews: imatge

imatge

Questions/comments:

Do we potentially want to split this into iuhqui in?
According to the above, cuauhchochopitli is a predicate (e.g. it takes the person agreement)
cuauhchochopitli is subordinated to iuhqui (because of the in)
iuhqui is some kind of nominal
If we go with "being thus a woodpecker", then maybe xcomp(iuhqui, cuauhchochopitli), acl(tototl, iuhqui)
- But then we have the question of the POS for iuhqui, ADJ or VERB

Lguyogiro commented 9 months ago

If we go with "being thus a woodpecker", then maybe xcomp(iuhqui, cuauhchochopitli), acl(tototl, iuhqui)
But then we have the question of the POS for iuhqui, ADJ or VERB

I think this makes sense. re POS, I vote for ADJ (like one such as thus) or NOUN (one such as thus).

Its also interesting to note that this is the origin of ihquin/ihcon/ohcon, which in azz and nhi are ADV

ftyers commented 9 months ago

I think this makes sense. re POS, I vote for ADJ (like one such as thus) or NOUN (one such as thus).

In that case, do we want to split the in off ?

(a) imatge

or leave it:

(b) imatge

There may be other stuff with the iuh- stem that we should be careful to treat in a similar way.

Lguyogiro commented 9 months ago

I kind of think we should split off in. In cases of iuhqui without the word-final n, the next word is always in.

eg iuhquj in qujmolpilitica

also, shouldn't the surface form be n instead of in? i.e. iuhquijn -> iuhquj n

ftyers commented 9 months ago

also, shouldn't the surface form be n instead of in? i.e. iuhqujn -> iuhquj n

It could go either way, but sure we can do it like that.

So:

imatge

Lguyogiro commented 9 months ago

:+1:

ftyers commented 9 months ago

Closed in 4a37124.

ftyers / UD_Classical_Nahuatl-FloCo

Book 05: Sentence 099 #13