Book 05: Sentence 027

[ftyers]

# sent_id = Book_05_-_The_Omens.txt:27
# text = No ioan, tetzaujtl catca, netetzaujloia, tetzammachoia: in jtoca ioaltepuztli.
# text[norm] = No ihuan, tetzahuitl catca, netetzahuiloya, tetzamachoya: in itoca yohualtepoztli.
# text[orig] = No·ioan·,·tetzaujtl·catca·,·ne¶tetzaujloia·,·tetzammachoia·:·inj¶toca·ioaltepuztli·.
# text[osp] = [...] quiere dezir: hacha nocturna, [...]
# references = A&D/165:2
1   No  no  ADV _       5   _   _   Folio=4v|Paragraph=4|Line=1|Norm=No|Gloss=también|Analysed=Yes
2   ioan    huan    NOUN    _   NounType=Relat|Number[psor]=Sing|Person[psor]=3|State=Poss  5   _   _   Folio=4v|Paragraph=4|Line=1|Norm=ihuan|Gloss=con|Analysed=Yes
3   ,   ,   PUNCT   _       4   punct   _   Folio=4v|Paragraph=4|Line=1|Norm=,|Analysed=Yes
4   tetzaujtl   tetzahuitl  NOUN    _   State=Abs   5   _   _   Folio=4v|Paragraph=4|Line=1|Norm=tetzahuitl|Analysed=Yes
5   catca   catqui  VERB    _   Subcat=Intr 0   root    _   Folio=4v|Paragraph=4|Line=1|Norm=catca
6   ,   ,   PUNCT   _       7   punct   _   Folio=4v|Paragraph=4|Line=1|Norm=,|Analysed=Yes
7   netetzaujloia   tetzahuia   VERB    _   _   4   _   _   Orig=ne¶·tetzaujloia|Folio=4v,4v|Paragraph=4,4|Line=1,2|Norm=netetzahuiloya
8   ,   ,   PUNCT   _       9   punct   _   Folio=4v|Paragraph=4|Line=2|Norm=,|Analysed=Yes
9   tetzammachoia   mati    VERB    _   Aspect=Imp|Number[subj]=Plur,Sing|Person[subj]=3|Subcat=Tran|Tense=Past|VerbForm=Fin|Voice=Pass 7   __Folio=4v|Paragraph=4|Line=2|Norm=tetzamachoya|Incorp=tetza|Analysed=Yes
9.1 tetza   tetzahuitl  NOUN    _   _   _   _   _   Incorporated=Yes
10  :   :   PUNCT   _       12  punct   _   Folio=4v|Paragraph=4|Line=2|Norm=:|Analysed=Yes
11  in  in  DET|SCONJ   _   _   12  _   _   Orig=inj¶·toca|Folio=4v,4v|Paragraph=4,4|Line=2,3|Norm=in
12  jtoca   toca    NOUN    _   _   4   _   _   Orig=inj¶·toca|Folio=4v,4v|Paragraph=4,4|Line=2,3|Norm=itoca|Gloss=su.nombre
13  ioaltepuztli    yohualtepoztli  NOUN    _   State=Abs   12  _   _   Folio=4v|Paragraph=4|Line=3|Norm=yohualtepoztli|Split=yohual·tepoztli|Analysed=Yes
14  .   .   PUNCT   _       5   punct   _   Folio=4v|Paragraph=4|Line=3|Norm=.|Analysed=Yes

[Lguyogiro]

Here's how I have this sentence: EDIT I updated it, the conj and parataxis things was just oversight from being tired and doing this hastily...I could go either way with the head of "No"..

[ftyers]

• What's the motivation for having No dependent of ihuan ?
• Why the nested coordination for netetzahuiloya and tetzammachoya?
• Shouldn't parataxis go to the root?

For the no,

An adverbial modifier of a word is a (non-clausal) adverb or adverbial phrase that serves to modify the meaning of the word.

So, is it modifying ihuan or modifying tetzahuitl catca. I think this might be reasonably frequent sentence introduction.

Another question:

• Using in with parataxis ... What is the structure there, if it's a subordinate clause, why parataxis. Is it subordinated to tetzahuitl catca, if so, with what function?

[ftyers]

no ihuan

Book_05_-_The_Omens.txt:60   No ihuan, netetzahuiloya in pinahuiztli: iuhquin tocatl tlatlauhqui, tlatlactic.   
Book_05_-_The_Omens.txt:27   No ihuan, tetzahuitl catca, netetzahuiloya, tetzamachoya: in itoca yohualtepoztli. 
Book_05_-_The_Omens.txt:46   No ihuan, intla ye aca mococoa: in ipan tzatzitiquiza, quihtoaya ca ayocmo quizaz: ca ticcahuazque.    
Book_05_-_The_Omens.txt:56   No ihuan, netetzahuiloya in tochin: in ihcuac aca ichan calaquiya, quihtoa in millaca, in milpan tlacah: ye tlalpolihuiz in ichan. 
Book_05_-_The_Omens.txt:91   No ihuan, netetzahuiloya moteittitiaya: in itoca cuitlapanton, anozo cintanaton: mihtoa in Acolhuacan centlapachton: iuh tocayotilo.   
Book_05_-_The_Omens.txt:14   No ihuan, quitetzammatia: in ihcuac aca ipan huehuetzca, huactli: in iuh conihtoa, ome huitz quihtoa: in quenman cualli, quenman amo cualli.   
Book_05_-_The_Omens.txt:85   No ihuan, tetzahuitl catca, tetetzahuiaya: in tlacanexquimilli, iuh mihtoa: zan ye mochi yeh inahual, inecuepaliz, inenextiliz in Tezcatlipoca: in ihcuac ittoya, zan momimilotiuh, quiquinacatiuh, tehtentiuh.    
Book_05_-_The_Omens.txt:41   No ihuan netetzahuiloya, tlatetzahuiaya, tetzamachoya, in tecolotl choca: in ihcuac tla aca itlapantenco, anozo ixacalticpac, icuauhticpac chocatica: in quicaqui quihtotica: tecolo, o, o, tecolooo, ihuin in caquizti, in choca. 
Book_05_-_The_Omens.txt:44   No ihuan netetzahuiloya, tetzauhittoya, in chicuatli: anozo chichtli in ihcuac aca, itlapanixcuac tzatzi: tzatzitiquiza, in quihtoa: cuel, ic quineltocaya, ca ye aca miquiz: ye cemeh miquizque in chaneque: ye cemeh cocolizcuizque. 
Book_05_-_The_Omens.txt:80   No ihuan, netetzahuiloya in tlacahuiyac: in ihcuac yohualtica moteittitia, mihtoa: zan ye moche inahual, inecuepaliz in tlacatecolotl Tezcatlipoca, moch ic teca mocayahua: in ihcuac aca iuh quimottitia, ye quitetzahuia in azo ye yaomiquiz, azo ye huicoz. 
Book_05_-_The_Omens.txt:69   No ihuan in epatl, netetzahuiloya: in ihcuac aca ichan calaqui, anozo oncan mopilhuatia: quihtoa, ye miquiz in chane: ipampa iuh quitoaya, ca amo inentlan, amo inemiyan in callan, in techan: ca milpan, zacatlan, memetlan nonopallan, in inemiyan, in iquizayan.    
Book_05_-_The_Omens.txt:52   No ihuan netetzahuiloya in cozamatl, anozo cozatli: in ihcuac aca ichan calaquiya: anozo ohtlica, cana quinamiqui: quiyacahuiltequi, ixpan tlaxtlapaloa: quihtoaya, azo ye itla conmonamictiz tetolini: azo ye itla ipan oncholoz, amo huel yaz in campa yaz nequi: azo acame inmac huetzitiuh, quimictizque: anozo ye tlahtolli, itech onehuaz: azo ye aca, tlahtolli conehualtiz: contlahtollaquiliz, contlahtolchichihuiliz.    
Book_05_-_The_Omens.txt:74   No ihuan, netetzahuiloya in azcame, in tlatlauhque, anozo tliltique: in ihcuac aca, ichan moloni, mopotza: quinextiaya in tecocoliliztli: quihtoaya in ihcuac oittoque, azo aca totecocolicauh itla otechtoquilico: iuh mihtoa, iuh nemacho in tlein quitetoquilia, tecocoliani: yehhuan in mocuepa azcame, ihcuac in ye huehcahua, tlein oquitocaque: mochi yehhuan intech tlami in tecocoliani, in temiquitlanini, in temiquiztemachique, in temiquiztemachiani, in tehueyiyecoani, in atlanca in tlatlacatecolo: in motenehua, tepoloani yehhua quintoca, quintlalia in azcame. 

ihuan no

Book_05_-_The_Omens.txt:67   Auh inic contlalia tlanepantla, chichitl, anozo octli: mihtoa ic contlahuantia: ihuan no mihtoa, in quenman ome huitz quihtoa: no cualli quinextia, azo itla cualli temacehual mochihua.   

[Lguyogiro]

I have come to think that the "in" here is actually behaving pronominally. Lockhart gives the example of "in quichihua amo qualli" "what he's doing is not good."

[ftyers]

Here is another suggestion, this time with catca as a copula:

Do you think that in itoca yohualtepoztli is modifying the incorporated object tetza- in tetzammachoya ? e.g. su nombre [del agüero] es hacha nocturna ?

[Lguyogiro]

Here is another suggestion, this time with catca as a copula:

This looks better imho.

Do you think that in itoca yohualtepoztli is modifying the incorporated object tetza- in tetzammachoya ? e.g. su nombre [del agüero] es hacha nocturna ?

I don't think so, or at least I don't see any reason to analyze it this way. They are referring to the same thing (the portent), but this is at a discourse level and is true of almost all the sentences. Another example of tetzammachoya:

e.g.

intla maceoalli: cenca tetzammachoya: "If a commoner drank it, it was considered scandalous" (Thelma D. Sullivan, "Nahuatl Proverbs, Conundrums, and Metaphors, Collected by Sahagún," Estudios de Cultura Náhuatl 4 (1963), 168–169. )

[ftyers]

The other question is if advcl is the right relation for in itoca yohualtepoztli. Some more examples of VERB: in itoca ... for comparison:

• No ihuan, netetzahuiloya moteittitiaya: in itoca cuitlapanton, anozo cintanaton: mihtoa in Acolhuacan centlapachton: iuh tocayotilo.
• Ic matlactli omome capítulo; oncan mihtoa: in occentlamantli tetzahuitl catca: in itoca catca: tlacanexquimilli.
• Nican tlami, nican tzonquiza, inic ilhuitl mochihuaya: in itoca Hueyi tecuilhuitl.

[Lguyogiro]

The other question is if advcl is the right relation for in itoca yohualtepoztli. Some more examples of VERB: in itoca ... for comparison:

if we give in some pronominal properties, we could interpret that last clause as "that which is called yohualtepoztli", and make it a core argument of one of the preceding verbs netetzaujloia or tetzammachoya

[ftyers]

So in #34 we have a tetzahuitl catca with a subject, and here there is one seemingly without a subject, could it be that in itoca yohualtepoztli is the subject?

[Lguyogiro]

That's what I was thinking. However, if we treat in itoca yohualtepoztli as a copular nominal clause "its name is night-axe", then making it the subject seems strange. On the other hand if, as I mentioned in my previous comment, we understand this to mean "that which's name is night-axe", then I think making it the subject is nice and, dare I say, elegant.

[Lguyogiro]

this is maybe a little weird but

(along the lines of "that which's name night-axe")

Lockhart has sentences like "in quichihua amo qualli" "What he is doing is not good." Although I believe this type of construction uses ccomp, so that brings me back to my initial analysis of this clause:

[ftyers]

this is maybe a little weird but

Hmm, can we find more examples of in itoca X in a similar construction? It just seems odd to go with a whole new POS...

• Inic cempohualli on caxtolli omeyi capítulo: itechpa tlatoa injlhujtl, in mo teneoaia: O auh quil tamalqualiztli, in mochihuaya in ipan ic tlamatlacti in metztli in tlac pac omihto: auh inihcuac y, quil hui qujx tiliaia, in inteouh catca, in itoca Ixcocauhqui
• Ic matlactli omome capítulo; oncan mihtoa: in occentlamantli tetzahuitl catca: in itoca catca: tlacanexquimilli.
• Auh in tlacopa tlatoani, catca in itoca Chimalpopoca, ipan in mic ixiuhtzin totecuiyo Jesu Cristo 1489.
• Inic centlamantli: intoca tolteca, iuh mihtoa: yehhuantin achto nemjco, in nican tlalli ipan: in mihtoa mexicatlalpan, in chichimeca tlalpan: auh quezqujtzonxivitl nenque, in ompa tullantzinco, in ca nelli ompa nenque: miec innezca qujtlaliteoaque, in ompa quichiuhque in jntevpan catca, in itoca oapalcalli, in axcan caca ca mani: tel inic ahuel polihui, ca tetl ca texcalli: ...
• ... huel tlatlamach tlalilli, huellatoltecahuilli, in jtlateumatian catca, in inteopixcauh catca, in itoca Quetzalcoatl, huellamahuicolli catca.
• Vellatevmatinj catca, ca za ce in inteouh qujcemmatia, in quinotzaya, in quitlatlauhtiaya, in itoca Quetzalcoatl, in jntlamacazcauh catca, in inteopixcauh: zan no itoca Quetzalcoatl: ...

Lockhart has sentences like "in quichihua amo qualli" "What he is doing is not good." Although I believe this type of construction uses ccomp, so that brings me back to my initial analysis of this clause:

I like this more, but how does it relate to the main clause...

[Lguyogiro]

The other question is if advcl is the right relation for in itoca yohualtepoztli. Some more examples of VERB: in itoca ... for comparison:

I lean towards parataxis:shared here. The subject of catca, netetzaujloia, and tetzammachoya is the same thing whose name is "night axe".

Alternatively, a suggestion you will love: conj:

"it was a portent, (and) it was considered portentous, (and) it is known as a portent, (and) its name is night axe".

[Lguyogiro]

I guess if they all share the same subject, which we could say is the last clause ("that which is called night axe"), then conj for the other clauses would make sense, and csubj(catca, yohualtepoztli)

[ftyers]

The other question is if advcl is the right relation for in itoca yohualtepoztli. Some more examples of VERB: in itoca ... for comparison:

I lean towards parataxis:shared here. The subject of catca, netetzaujloia, and tetzammachoya is the same thing whose name is "night axe".

Alternatively, a suggestion you will love: conj:

"it was a portent, (and) it was considered portentous, (and) it is known as a portent, (and) its name is night axe".

So like this?

[Lguyogiro]

So like this?

yeah this looks good. for the "itoca $name" construction, I've always been treating "toca" as the subject, and the name as the head. I realize it could go either way though but I guess we should pick one.

[ftyers]

So like this?

yeah this looks good. for the "itoca $name" construction, I've always been treating "toca" as the subject, and the name as the head. I realize it could go either way though but I guess we should pick one.

I'm going with the predicate is first (because VSO), but I realise that's fairly weak evidence.

[Lguyogiro]

That's fine, let's just do that.

[ftyers]

Merged in 2aa7492.