User-Selectable Startup Volume

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I've committed changes to my branch (oh please don't tell me I sent it to
the trunk again, because I was SUPER CAREFUL) that adds the following two
features:

- User-selectable startup volume
- User-selectable scrobbling percentage

Both are settable in the settings dialog.

Original issue reported on code.google.com by steve.j.punter@gmail.com on 5 Jan 2009 at 11:12

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Hi Steve.  You have submitted to your personal branch.

I don't think there should be a user selectable startup volume.  I think that 
Mobbler
should just remember what the volume was last and restore it to that.

I think that user selectable scrobbling percentage is a good feature.  How does 
it
work?  According to Last.fm you must listen to at lest %50, which means we 
should
only allow users to select scrobbling between %50 and %100.

Original comment by eartle@gmail.com on 5 Jan 2009 at 11:19

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The Scrobbler Percent is a slider (like the buffer time) which ENFORCES values 
of 
50% to 100%. Users therefore cannot enter values of less than 50%. The value is 
then 
used in the calculation of the amount of the song that needs to be scrobbled 
(you 
just divided by 2).

I personally like the startup volume. I frequently turn it down when I listen 
at 
night and I DON'T want it coming up soft when I next start it. If it were up to 
me, 
I'd pick the SELECTABLE startup volume over the last used volume every time. 
But, 
it's up to you.

Original comment by steve.j.punter@gmail.com on 5 Jan 2009 at 11:23

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Remembering what the last volume was is what the S60 Music Player does and is
generally more consistent with other music players so that is what we should do.

The scrobble percentage thing sounds like a great addition to me.

Original comment by eartle@gmail.com on 5 Jan 2009 at 11:35

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I'm a big fan of giving users choice. When I use other people's software I like 
it 
to let me choose what way features work. Why not give the user a choice? We 
don't 
even need to add a new item to the settings dialog. If they ask for a startup 
volume 
of zero, then Mobbler can use the volume from the previous time, otherwise it 
would 
use the volume requested.

Original comment by steve.j.punter@gmail.com on 6 Jan 2009 at 6:46

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These could be two seperate 
enhancement issues.

Anyway, I agree with Eartle about 
the volume, we should be consistent 
with other S60 apps. 

I'm also not so sure about the 
scrobble percentage. I know the 
desktop app allows it, but do any 
other clients? And the rules don't say 
"you should listen to at least 50%", 
they say "The track must have been 
played for a duration of at least 240s 
*or* half the track's total length, 
whichever comes first". So for most 
songs (which are shorter than 480s), 
50% will always come before 55%, 
70%, or 100%. 
See http://www.last.fm/api/
submissions

Original comment by hugovk@gmail.com on 6 Jan 2009 at 10:33

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@hugovk
I don't think there is any harm in being more strict with what you scrobble.  
The
desktop app allows this and people have asked for it so I think we should add 
it.

I think you've got the scrobble rules the wrong way around.  A 40 second track 
can be
scrobbled after 20 seconds because %50 comes first.  A 10 minute track can be
scrobbled after 4 minutes because 4 minutes comes first.

This does high light an interesting issue though.  If you increase the scrobble
percentage to %80 say, when do you get rid of the more than 4 minutes rule?  I 
think
we should always keep the 4 minute rule, but if people set the scrobble 
percentage to
%100 then they may expect that it will only ever scrobble at %100, but this is 
not
true for tracks longer than 4 minutes.  Hmmmmmm.

@steve
I am just worried about cluttering Mobbler up with too many settings and 
choices, but
maybe there is room for things like this.  I think we should go with the 0 means
remember last volume, but it should be very obvious that this is what it does.

I mentioned it before, but I think we should go for tabbed settings view.  
Username
and password on one tab, audio settings on one tab, and graphics settings on 
another tab.

Original comment by eartle@gmail.com on 6 Jan 2009 at 11:35

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re: interesting issue, that was partly what I was getting at. But also 
forgetting 
the 240s part, 50% always comes before any user definable value.

What does the desktop app do? We should use that as a guide.

Original comment by hugovk@gmail.com on 6 Jan 2009 at 1:14

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I must say that I find this resistence to giving the user more options on the 
basis 
that it makes things more complex a tad puzzling. If complexity of the settings 
dialog is a concern, then we can use a tabbed dialog (as has been suggested) 
and put 
some of the items in a tab marked ADVANCED. This way less technically savvy 
users 
can restrict themselves to simpler options and leave the more complex ones to 
power 
users who would GREATLY APPECIATE the flexibility.

Take Photoshop for example. It's WAY MORE powerful than any single person can 
ever 
expect to understand or use, but it's the raw flexibility of Photoshop that 
keeps it 
at the forefront of image editing software. So much so that we use the 
term "photoshop" to generically refer to photo editing. I don't hear people 
complain 
that photograph to TOO COMPLICATED or has TOO MANY features.

Why not have two MODES for Mobbler. One mode would be stripped down with just 
the 
features we all deem to be NECESSARY, while a second mode (called "Advanced" 
or "Expert") could provide all the bells and whistles for power users.

And remember this old saying: "I'd rather have a feature and not need it than 
to 
need a feature and not have it".

Original comment by steve.j.punter@gmail.com on 6 Jan 2009 at 3:43

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I'm all for adding options, but there is a reason why you won't find a user
selectable startup volume on any other audio player.

I'd much prefer to just remember the last volume.

Original comment by eartle@gmail.com on 6 Jan 2009 at 11:22

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So, other programmers don't have any imagination. Doesn't mean we have to 
follow 
them into medicority.

Original comment by steve.j.punter@gmail.com on 6 Jan 2009 at 11:25

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The reason is not that no one has thought of doing it before.

Original comment by eartle@gmail.com on 6 Jan 2009 at 11:36

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Okay, I'll bite. Why do we not do it?

Original comment by steve.j.punter@gmail.com on 6 Jan 2009 at 11:46

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It's just a bad option that no one wants.

Original comment by eartle@gmail.com on 7 Jan 2009 at 12:12

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Like I've said before, this is your program and you're free to decide what 
features 
it does and does not have. I can't say I understand your reasoning on this 
topic, 
but I accept it and the subject is closed.

Original comment by steve.j.punter@gmail.com on 7 Jan 2009 at 12:16

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Issue 232 has been merged into this issue.

Original comment by eartle@gmail.com on 7 Jan 2009 at 11:07

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Hi, Steve.  It would be nice to get the 'scrobble percentage' and 'remember the
volume for restart' stuff into the trunk.  Are you working on finishing this 
off?

As a note, please could you keep your personal branch more up to date with the 
trunk
and do updating from the trunk and submitting new features in seperate commits. 
 It
is really difficult to see what you have done and review it if everything is all
bunched up together.

Original comment by eartle@gmail.com on 8 Jan 2009 at 11:38

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Before I submitted those changes I downloaded a FRESH copy of the code from the 
trunk and I directly modified that. Just how up-to-date am I supposed to be? 
Perhaps 
it has something to do with how SVN works, or how I used it. I thought I 
replaced 
ALL of the files in my branch with that new code.

As for bundling them into one update, my only defence there is that I never 
conceived of such a simple and unobtrusive change (volume at startup) being 
REJECTED. To tell you the truth, the reasons cited for rejecting it (no one 
else 
does it that way, and you can't think of anyone who wants it) are the LAMEST 
(and in 
the second case the MOST SHORT-SIGHTED) excuses I've ever heard in all my years 
as a 
programmer. I've even given some thought to submitting it to Douglas Adams as a 
Dilbert comic idea.

Both of the features worked flawlessly as submitted, and as I noted they were 
made 
to the most recent copy of the trunk at the time. Did you want me to re-write 
the 
scrobble percentage feature to newest copy of the turnk?

Finally, as to making multiple features at once, I'll endeaver to avoid that in 
any 
future submissions. However, once-bitten-twice-shy, I'm not inclined to submit 
anything until everyone sounds like they WANT it.

Original comment by steve.j.punter@gmail.com on 8 Jan 2009 at 3:09

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I think that using Google Moderator would be a good idea in order to ensure 
only the 
most popular additions get done.

Original comment by tonilounavarro on 8 Jan 2009 at 3:34

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I'm sorry, but I'm always going to question and resist adding things that I 
don't
like and don't see the benefit of because I'd rather not spend any of my time
reviewing, integrating, and maintaining them.  Wasting time doing things that 
people
won't use doesn't make sense to me and I'm sure is the theme of many Dilbert 
comics
(by Scott Adams).

I don't remember rejecting this anyway and even said that there may be room for
things like this, but we should try to tidy up the settings view to make it a 
touch
simpler.  If we were to add it then I think the default behaviour should be to
remember the last volume.  There should also be two setting items, one to turn 
it on
and one to select the startup volume.

Original comment by eartle@gmail.com on 8 Jan 2009 at 4:06

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Okay, now I feel like an fool for using the name DOUGLAS ADAMS instead of SCOTT 
ADAMS. I actually met Douglas Adams ("Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy" etal) 
in 
person at a science fiction convention in Chicago many years ago. I damned well 
know 
the difference between Douglas and Scott, but I sent that message a bit too 
hastily 
and I didn't check it properly before I sent it.

Now to the volume issue (again). The code involved in the user-selectable 
volume at 
startup is SO SIMPLE and SO STRAIGHT-FORWARD, especially when you consider that 
almost 75% of it would be needed for your idea of having the volume remember 
its 
setting, that again your reasoning baffles me. In fact, the creation of a US 
English 
profile just to fix the spelling of Equalizer was far more likely to have 
caused an 
issue that something as simple as the volume mod I submitted.

I do agree that having two settings items is BETTER idea if both volume 
features are 
to be included. I merely suggested combining them in case you thought the 
settings 
dialog was getting too crowded.

Original comment by steve.j.punter@gmail.com on 8 Jan 2009 at 7:28

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I had this whole Apple iPhone gag worked out that I'd originally intended to 
post 
just to be scarcastic. However, I opted not to take that route, but the gag 
still 
warrents posting, though this time only in jest. Please don't take this the 
wrong 
way:

When Apple was designing the iPhone someone suggested they included 
cut-and-paste, 
but the management at Apple said "it's a bad idea and no one wants it", and so 
they 
left it out.

Next someone suggested that because the iPhone was a multimedia entertainment 
device 
that it should have A2DP stereo Bluetooth capabilities. Apple said "it's a bad 
idea 
and no one wants it", and so they left it out.

Next someone suggested that users be given access to multi-tasking capabilities 
of 
OS/10 so that they could run applications concurrently. Apple said "it's a bad 
idea 
and no one wants it", and so they left it out.

I'm sure everyone here will agree that the Apple iPhone is a VASTLY SUPERIOR 
smartphone BECAUSE Apple held their ground and didn't include a bunch or 
worthless 
features that no one wants.

In fact, if we wish hard enough, perhaps the people at Symbian will come to see 
the 
wisdom of Apple and REMOVE those pesky unwanted features from our smartphones 
too. 
I'm sure no one will miss cut-and-paste, or A2DP, or running applications 
concurrently. I mean really, who would want to listen to Last.fm while doing 
ANYTHING ELSE with their phone?

Original comment by steve.j.punter@gmail.com on 8 Jan 2009 at 7:47

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You are forgiven for the Adams mix-up.  Douglas is such a hero, it must have 
been
great to meet him.

I just don't think we are going to agree on this, but I'm happy for it to be 
added in
the way we've discussed.

Is there a way to hide the startup volume slider when this option is off?  That 
would
be good.  I hope that Symbian didn't leave that feature out ;).

Original comment by eartle@gmail.com on 8 Jan 2009 at 8:42

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Douglas Adams was a very funny and entertaining guy to watch (and to speak 
with). 
The whole time I was there I couldn't help but think I was looking at Dudley 
Moore.

I'm not sure if there's a way to GRAY OUT an object in the sense that it become 
disabled. It seems that Symbian takes "grey" to mean "invisible". Nonetheless, 
I'll 
look into it and see if there's a way to acheive that goal.

Original comment by steve.j.punter@gmail.com on 8 Jan 2009 at 10:23

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We should be able to use CAknSettingItem::SetHidden(TBool) to show and hide the
slider setting item whenever this feature is turned on or off.

Original comment by eartle@gmail.com on 9 Jan 2009 at 12:15

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I've split off the "User-Selectable Scrobbling Percentage" bit into issue 258.

Original comment by hugovk@gmail.com on 3 Feb 2009 at 2:32

• Changed title: Startup Volume

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Original comment by hugovk@gmail.com on 3 Feb 2009 at 2:35

• Changed title: User-Selectable Startup Volume

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I would suggest that there be 2 options:
1) Restore previous volume setting on startup
2) Start with x% volume (default setting, with 50% default %)

I think most users would be happy with that.

Personally, I use mobbler through bluetooth audio (A2DP) so I always increase 
the
volume to 100% every time I use it (I find increasing speaker volume first 
introduces
more noise).  Just a minor annoyance for a great program.

Thanks,
Mark

Original comment by mhal...@gmail.com on 17 Apr 2009 at 10:42

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Original comment by hugovk@gmail.com on 24 Jun 2009 at 5:35

• Changed state: WontFix