Inconsistency of Mobbler behaviours

[GoogleCodeExporter]

What steps will reproduce the problem?
1. Open inbuilt music player and start playing any file
2. Open Mobbler and press enter
3. Mobbler tries to connect to Last.fm
4. Press right
5. Nothing happens
6. Try to open a new station
7. Mobbler connects to Last.fm, tries to play a couple of files without 
stopping inbuilt music player and then exits/crashes.

What is the expected output? What do you see instead?
I'd expect while the inbuilt music player is running, Mobbler should 
behave accordingly; but it behaves dedicatedly. For example why do I have 
a "buy" button while inbuilt music player is running, wouldn't a "rewind" 
button be better? 

What version of the product are you using? On what operating system?
0.3.4 / S60 3rd Edition, Feature Pack 1 / N82 firmware 20.0.062 

Please provide any additional information below.
I don't think any more info is needed.

Original issue reported on code.google.com by gece.bekcisi@uniturk.net on 9 Jan 2009 at 1:51

[GoogleCodeExporter]

Due to reactions I received in issue 238, I will make further explanations on 
this 
issue.

- Inbuilt application is good enough for playing music but it lacks some 
valuable 
features which could be implemented seperetaly, so I'd like Mobbler to be an 
enhancement "add-on" for the inbuilt application, definitely *not* a stand 
alone 
music player.

- I'd love if Mobbler could automatically execute the inbuilt application 
(based on 
an option in settings or asking at startup, surely) and save me from opening 
both of 
the applications. 

- If the feature I'd like above is not possible, I'd like to have an 
autostarting 
server application (with small footprint) included in Mobbler which will 
monitor the 
inbuilt music player and start main application if inbuilt music player is 
executed 
by user (again, optional feature which can be turned off in settings).

I'd prefer first way over second way.

- In either way described above, since my phone doesn't have dedicated music 
keys, 
I'd like to use Mobbler UI for performing operations on music player (which may 
be 
called "Local mode", since then Mobbler would be a front-end to the music 
player). 

So the left direction key could be binded to "rewind", right key to "forward", 
center "play/stop" or "play/pause", up to "love" and down to "ban" or "stop" 
(if 
center is "play/pause"); or the whole d-pad could be configured manually by 
user 
based on a list of actions in settings.

- In local mode, Mobbler could search for image files within the same directory 
of 
current track and if found, show it as track image.

- If music player is not executed, Mobbler could behave as a pure Last.fm 
client as 
it does at the moment; current condition (being a client) is good, with 
enhancements 
mentioned in issue 238 it'll be perfect (I'd still prefer the whole d-pad to be 
manually configured in the same manner above)

To sum things up..

a) If Mobbler is executed by user, its behaviour could be implemented as:

1. Ask the user about music player execution
2. If "Yes" selected, switch to "local mode" with local mode specific key 
bindings 
and functionality. 
3. If "No" selected, switch to "online mode" with online mode specific key 
bindings 
and functionality.
4. Whatever selection is made at startup, be ready to switch to other mode 
because 
user may want to do that (connect to last.fm / disconnect and use music player) 
at 
anytime after this, but do not ever prompt user for this unless there is user 
input. 
If there is any user input that needs mode switching, be sure to get a 
confirmation 
before listing access points / disconnecting.

b) If Mobbler is executed at phone startup, its behaviour could be implemented 
as:
1. Start in background
2. If user opens UI from menu, then ask about music player execution.
The rest could be the same with (a).

c) If Mobbler is executed automatically by a small server application described 
above, its behaviour could be implemented as in (b)

I don't have anymore ideas atm, but will add later if any comes up.

Original comment by gece.bekcisi@uniturk.net on 14 Jan 2009 at 9:16

[GoogleCodeExporter]

I think I must add some more stuff about 4th behavioural step.

- If "local mode" is selected at startup and user wants to switch afterwards, 
Mobbler should check inbuilt application's state and if it's playing a track, 
Mobbler should stop or pause playback and connect after this.

- If "online mode" is selected at startup, but user does not connect to any 
station 
and inbuilt application is running and playing, key bindings & functionality 
should 
be switched to "local mode" behaviour with a small difference; online 
scrobbling 
enabled = tracks are not queued like in issue 243.

I think all those suggestions are the pointing the right way to be followed for 
Mobbler development, because my mind is based on this conjecture:

The inbuilt application doesn't need any extra stuff (other than the track 
itself) 
to listen but last.fm stations need "online connection" and maybe more battery 
power 
(that needs testing with nokia's energy profiler to be exact); so users are 
more 
likely to play tracks locally especially if they have expensive access or if 
they 
think being online drains battery faster.

I hope I've explained my mind comprehensibly and clearly.

Original comment by gece.bekcisi@uniturk.net on 15 Jan 2009 at 11:09

[GoogleCodeExporter]

Ahh, so you want Mobbler to be a fully featured front end to the music player? 
Starting the music player and controlling the music player can both be done from
Mobbler, but we have previously rejected the idea of controlling the music 
player
because we wanted to keep things simple and behave in a similar way to the 
desktop
client (you don't control iTunes with that).  When you are using the music 
player it
is expected that you are looking at that and Mobbler is just scrobbling away in 
the
background.  It seems that people prefer to look at Mobbler when listenning to 
music.

I am coming around to the idea that we shouldn't keep the paradigms of the 
desktop
client as the mobile quite different.  I now agree with you and think that
controlling the music player would be a good feature for Mobbler.

As you mention, the difficult thing would be keeping it simple for the user and
getting the behaviour and key bindings right.  I am not a big of user definable 
key
bindings or introducing a new mode.  Automatically changing key bindings 
depending on
what you are doing might be a bit confusing too.  It's just something we need 
to put
a little bit of thought into though.

I should also mention that it is not technically possible for Mobbler to 
autostart or
be started if the music player starts.  It would be possible in the future, if 
we
decide to spend the time to get symbian signed.

Thanks for your suggestions!  Does anyone want to do this piece of work?

Original comment by eartle@gmail.com on 15 Jan 2009 at 11:12

• Added labels: Type-Enhancement
• Removed labels: Type-Defect

[GoogleCodeExporter]

I prefer to look at Mobbler, because I can "love", "ban" or "add to playlist" 
etc. I 
don't exactly know why desktop client doesn't do this, but in a mobile phone 
lack of 
a mouse to speed things up changes environment a lot.

About the autostart issue, I'd like to repeat what I said in last.fm grup 
forum: why 
not include an unsigned version besides selfsigned one in new releases which 
has 
autostart function for people capable of signing it by Symbian Signed - Open 
Signed 
Online or with a developer certificate just like I have?

Original comment by gece.bekcisi@uniturk.net on 15 Jan 2009 at 11:22

[GoogleCodeExporter]

To release an unsigned version, that includes a few more features, we would 
have to
change all the UIDs to protected ones from unprotected ones.  This is not a big 
deal,
but has a few problems.

1) It would require a bit of work to make it easy to build both versions 
configurably

2) These features would have to be added configurably.

3) I think that because the two versions have different UIDs, the OS would 
think they
are different applications.  You would get an install error if you tried to 
install
both when you may just be expecting it to update.

4) Because of (3) checking for updates from the unsigned version would not work.

Original comment by eartle@gmail.com on 15 Jan 2009 at 11:59

[GoogleCodeExporter]

I didn't know UID's would cause so much trouble. OK, forget it then.

(I am not a big fan of user definable key bindings or introducing a new mode.)

What if users, even including you, would benefit more from the features Mobbler 
presents in a new mode?

(Automatically changing key bindings depending on what you are doing might be a 
bit 
confusing too)

Well, current key bindings is more confusing, I think. Why? 

Let's assume I am a new and unexperienced user. I am a last.fm user and heard 
Mobbler somehow, installed it for the first time. I opened music player, start 
playing a song; and then remembered Mobbler and executed it. Mobbler would try 
to 
get online by default and I said "why not?". I look at the screen and see 
"music 
player" at top, "play/stop" and "forward" buttons in the middle and think 
they'll 
work in music player since Mobbler knows I am using music player and displays 
the 
current track, but, hey! If I press those buttons Mobbler would try to open a 
station and even crash. "Logical"? "Unconfusing"?

Taking suggestions to further step; what about a user selectable option, 
"simple" 
and "advanced" modes? In "simple" mode, just as you said, keys should be fixed 
(but 
I still think they should behave accordingly, reason is explained above) layout 
would not be unconfusing etc. But in "advanced" mode user would be already 
accepting 
the difficulties he/she would face; so he/she should be free to set Mobbler the 
way 
he/she wants it to behave; an advanced user will use Mobbler more efficiently.

Original comment by gece.bekcisi@uniturk.net on 16 Jan 2009 at 4:52

[GoogleCodeExporter]

Mobbler does not try to get online by default.  It will only do this if you have
selected to be in online mode.  offline mode is default on a new installation.  
We
are also planning to put online/offline in the status bar when the music player 
is
playing.

I think that the left joypad button will always be skip backward and will only 
work
when the music player is running.

I will 'grey out' the buttons that are not currently useable by drawing them 
with
around 50% alpha.

Nothing happening:
All buttons are greyed except for play.

Music Player:
Only ban is greyed.

Radio Player:
Only skip backward is greyed.

Original comment by eartle@gmail.com on 20 Jan 2009 at 10:52

[GoogleCodeExporter]

Well, sorry about the default mode delusion.

I can be wrong and things doesn't need to be done in the way I describe; but as 
far 
as I see you at least get my point: mobbler should behave according to music 
player's state.

Original comment by gece.bekcisi@uniturk.net on 20 Jan 2009 at 8:08

[GoogleCodeExporter]

I know I'm not supposed to post "+1 Me too!", but just so the meaning of my 
vote is clear....
I also think the "Mobbler as front end for built-in music player" idea is 
great.  Just this second had the same idea myself!  Glad to hear that it is 
indeed possible.  Has there been any progress on this feature?
Thanks for the Mobbler app as-is btw :)

Original comment by colin.cu...@gmail.com on 15 Apr 2011 at 8:47

[GoogleCodeExporter]

We're adding pause for the radio, so it'd be good to add it for the music 
player too.

Original comment by hugovk@gmail.com on 15 Apr 2011 at 4:31