Water wheel and windmill balancing.

[Discord-Github-Bridge]

.eweer on Discord says

Following the conversation of: https://discord.com/channels/890222432605057044/1193013009493274624

Summary: Too many water wheels are bad, both for performance and intended gameplay.

Ideas:

• Disable them completely
  • Issue: Water wheels are an essential part of remote rotary farms
• Gate them
  • Issue: They are supposed to be early game tools
• Nerf the SU they provide
  • Issue: Player will just make more of them
• Hard-Limit or Soft-Limit the amount of wheels in a single system
  • Issue: Not feasible code-wise.
• Give a limited amount of them to the player and make them not craftable
  • Issue: None?

[Discord-Github-Bridge]

.eweer on Discord says

Bad bot. I pressed enter by accident. Wanted to change title to [Balance] Water wheels. :(

[Discord-Github-Bridge]

.eweer on Discord says

[Balance] Water wheels

[Discord-Github-Bridge]

mini_me0000 on Discord says

My vote goes for a limited amount of non-craftable water wheels, delivered by a non-repeated trade. Maybe add crafting big wheel <--> small wheel as an option only. Similar like with a small cog <--> big cog right now

[Discord-Github-Bridge]

autistic.sack.of.friends on Discord says

that could work yeah

[Discord-Github-Bridge]

autistic.sack.of.friends on Discord says

also a consistent supply of stress is useful for making sure your power generation can't clog up forever

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Jazo on Discord says

I think more SU should be tied into more automation. To be limited decreased creativity and freedom very much. At some point you are not able to progress any further. Only real solution right now it waterwheel and even with them its quite a lot of work and expensive. When SU gets even harder, the fun comes to a stop I think. In Multiplayer it could be even worse because Players dont only block themselves with materials but also SU. With one shared cow and shared orders there is nothing you can do.

1.I think to make Betsy stronger for more Milk. Example for block under Betsy: (any block -> dirt -> grass -> enchanted grass -> etc...) increases milk supply

2. Or interesting ways to get better and better fuels which are quite easy to make in the beginning, but more complex ones are way stronger.

Waterwheels dont fit in the pack for me. You run them with milk because real water is expensive and its not automation or interesting. Feels more like a chore to continue playing after building first devices.

[Discord-Github-Bridge]

autistic.sack.of.friends on Discord says

you can run quite a few engines off of one betsy

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autistic.sack.of.friends on Discord says

also in non co-op you'll eventually get multiple landing sites is the plan

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autistic.sack.of.friends on Discord says

like my current setup easily handles 6

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autistic.sack.of.friends on Discord says

and that's not even with fertilizer boosting

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autistic.sack.of.friends on Discord says

which gives you over double if i'm remembering right...

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Jazo on Discord says

6 Engines are not enough if I want to run everything at a fast pace. At some point I cant get it faster.

Yeah there is a way to get more, but I think it would be better if the steps are smoother. To calculate the surplus is also a bit complex with the SU´, different materials and different fuels (half of them seemed not useable)

[Discord-Github-Bridge]

autistic.sack.of.friends on Discord says

i think the idea is that you need to think about what you put your milk towards

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autistic.sack.of.friends on Discord says

why is 256 rpm neccesary

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autistic.sack.of.friends on Discord says

you do not need that much speed

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autistic.sack.of.friends on Discord says

64 tops

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Jazo on Discord says

I like mine at least at 120 rpm. Yeah milk allocation is important. But it would be good to make it better and better. Instead of replacing it (I like the Idea to always have the same amount). Then the pack would be centered around Betsy and generators, instead of waterwheels or biodiesel. A few more fueltypes which motivate would be good.

I played a pack before where I planned a treefarm for over 2 weeks with minimal SU and nothing to spare. And if the pack is made around that idea, its possible. But I dont feel like SU should be a hard thing here, because the resource generation + trades is interesting enough. SU gets a bit in the way of a smooth gameplay (at least for me)

[Discord-Github-Bridge]

autistic.sack.of.friends on Discord says

have you actually tried leaving things at a lowish su... i can't think of any resources in particular where you need to churn out over 60 per minute

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autistic.sack.of.friends on Discord says

i'm sorry 120 just seems excessive

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Jazo on Discord says

Had last time I played over 90 big waterwheels so it was fine. Crushing wheels take a lot of SU.

I kind of get what you mean, but I dont like to wait for machines. I think the modpack has a good philosophy in other regards, but need a good one with SU too. I dont think limiting players is the best way to go, but when there are good reasons with good recipes then it would be fine.

slower is more immersive, but harder to balance as developer. Faster makes it less time consuming tp play and is better for massproduction and a bit lightweight

Not sure which way to go, has not changed much because its a hard topic. Just wanted to leave my thoughts <:thumbsup:1191476503750397982>

[Discord-Github-Bridge]

autistic.sack.of.friends on Discord says

mass production happens either way

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autistic.sack.of.friends on Discord says

once you get something automated, you'll have a good amount in no time

[Yarden-zamir]

OK, conclusion. we want waterwheels and windmills to have no recipes, instead we want to give them through early trades in limited amounts