[Warlock] Pet issues

[bonfax4]

Description:

• Succubus lash of pain has a wrong crit multiplier.
• Torment doing less dmg than expected.
• Voidwalker torment ability should be able to crit.
• Felguard felstorm dmg is off.

How to reproduce:

How it should work:

• Lash of pain crit multiplier should be 199.5% like every other pet/class spell.
• Voidwalker torment ability either has the wrong formula or multischool abilities are not being properly handled. Torment is a shadowstrike and as such should pick the lowest of either armor or shadow resistance, depending on which is lowest. Tested on a 85 dummy which i'd assume has shadow resis as the lowest stat but my torment dmg was lower than expected.
• Torment should be able to crit.
• Felstorm dmg is off by a huge margin, think it's double dipping mastery and possibly orc racial. Formula might be using weapon dmg ( already affected by mastery and racials ) instead of pet dmg before modifiers. My napkin math actually tells me its possibly triple dipping mastery.

Torment dmg formula is (729 + (0,512 (SP 0,5)))

Lash of pain crit multiplier on simc and dr damage

Torment on simc critting

This is from a warlock with 0 gear, 176sp, 18% mastery, 164 added dmg from formula (before mastery and armor mitigation ). Not a proper test but the dmg discrepancy is so big you can tell that something is wrong.

Melee dmg

Felstorm dmg

Database links: https://cata-twinhead.twinstar.cz/?spell=3716 https://cata-twinhead.twinstar.cz/?spell=7814 https://cata-twinhead.twinstar.cz/?spell=89751

[Pornoodemon]

Not quite clear about the felguard The base damage has a scatter. At such low values 176 sp . It's not to test.

[bonfax4]

I'll test with mastery gear when I get time but for sure smthing is wrong. Felstorm uses pet dmg in it's formula + 164 with my gear and you can see a 53'ish% dmg increase when I only have 18% from mastery. I tested with a naked warlock 176sp

[bonfax4]

Not quite clear about the felguard The base damage has a scatter. At such low values 176 sp . It's not to test

My point the scatter is small with low gear and the discrepancy is big asf lol. Even if I used my highest normal hit ( minus the mastery / racial increase so hit/1.239) the formula couldn't even get me close to the minimum felstorm is hitting for.

[Pornoodemon]

(((44620,5)2)*0.33+111)=1583.46 + 3151(Weapon damage) = 4734.46 Result !!= 4734 - 4718 - 4776!! Matches to the smallest detail! and even if the spread would be within +- 300 damage, this is not a reason to break this pet Don't suffer nonsense

[bonfax4]

You are not accounting for the armor on the training dummy. Show me what your regular hit hits for . And how much mastery ?

[bonfax4]

Maybe the issue is the dmg is ignoring armor I guess. It's physical dmg

[Pornoodemon]

Возможно, проблема в том, что урон игнорирует броню. это физический урон

Armor in a regular dummy? LOL

[bonfax4]

They do have armor tho. You just made me get out of bed to actually hit the dummy lol. Link me your felguard regular hit then pls

[Pornoodemon]

Although the formula is correct, it seems to me that there is another problem here and not the one about which you made a report. Mastery currently only increases weapon damage, but it should not increase weapon damage, it should increase the final value in the formula.

[bonfax4]

Although the formula is correct, it seems to me that there is another problem here and not the one about which you made a report. Mastery currently only increases weapon damage, but it should not increase weapon damage, it should increase the final value in the formula.

Mastery directly affects pet dmg on the panel. You only didn't add mastery to the extra dmg

[bonfax4]

Can't find the actual value of armor. Gonna need a gm to help out. Somewhere between 38-40 % reduction tho.

[Pornoodemon]

Mastery does not affect spell damage pet panel . This means that the final damage will not be calculated not correctly. Mastery should increase the damage of the ability at the very end of the spell's formula, not its individual elements. Mastery should not increase weapon damage in the stats panel. Let's say we have 20% Mastery damage. It should look like this. (weapon damage+(((SP0.5)2)0.33+111)) 1.2 And it seems that I will need to make a separate report, since there is already a lot of superfluous here.

[bonfax4]

Mastery does not affect spell damage. This means that the final damage will not be calculated not correctly. Mastery should increase the damage of the ability at the very end of the spell's formula, not its individual elements. Mastery should not increase weapon damage in the stats panel. Let's say we have 20% Mastery damage. It should look like this. (weapon damage+(((SP0.5)2)0.33+111)) 1.2 And it seems that I will need to make a separate report, since there is already a lot of superfluous here.

I'm aware of that. But if you account for armor something is not correct still. Either it's ignoring armor or the formula is off. The small increase your missing is still way off

[Pornoodemon]

When I checked the death-strike BDK which deals physical damage it also matched the formula for damage not reduced by dummy armor. Maybe his armor only works for auto-attacks. I don't know Anyway, when I check something on the dummy, I count it as 0 resilience and 0 armor.

[bonfax4]

Also I'm fairly certain formula uses warlock spell power and not pet spell dmg btw. Matches perfectly with the tooltip this way.

[Pornoodemon]

Look at the calculation by the formula I took the spell power of a pet 4462

[bonfax4]

The current formula is using this and math kinda matches [melee mastery racial + (felstorm formula)]* mastery. Somewhat double dipping and the numbers kinda match. Nvm way off after armor. It only feels right if I triple dip mastery after armor mitigation, scarely close actually.

[Pornoodemon]

The only flaw in this whole thing is that mastery shouldn't increase weapon damage fot stat, but should increase the damage of the ability formula as a whole.

[bonfax4]

Yup tested on lvl 3 dummies and I do much more dmg, so armor is actually working there.

[Pornoodemon]

Да, проверено на манекенах 3 уровня, и я наношу гораздо больше урона, так что броня там действительно работает. There is armor. But if checks it on the abilities of classes that deal physical damage with abilities and not with auto attacks, then this armor does not work and I don't know if this is correct or not. Roughly speaking and summing up. If you test the ability for 0 armor and 0 res, then the formula works + -

[bonfax4]

Well armor is working tho so that doesn't explain much. Let's just wait for a dev to reveal the formula and the armor value instead.

[jlldarocha]

Im not sure how much the dummies armor should reduce the physical damage, but the damage seems fine/correct.

On boss dummies My felstorm is doing 6182 maximum damage, with 5085 pet spellpower.

Using the felstorm coefficient with my stats:

(3745+(((50850.5)2)0.33+111)) 1.4 (mastery) * 1.05 (orc racial) = 8,135.0535

~25% damage reduction from armour on dummies.

Pet stats and damage

My stats to show %mastery

[jlldarocha]

Naked test on felstorm:

(1443+(((1500.5)2)0.33+111)) 1.18 (mastery) * 1.05 (orc racial) = 1986 expected maximum damage

1538 actual maximum damage ~23% reduction from armor

(lack of) gear showcase

[bonfax4]

Test it on the lvl 3 dummies on the starting areas and you'll have more accurate numbers. They barely have armor, so the auto attack dmg almost matches properly with the pet window. And use warlock sp power on the formulas.

Also if you're multiplying mastery/racial you're already kinda double dipping since auto attack dmg is already affected by those.

[bonfax4]

lvl 3 dummy, 8 mastery (18.4% increase) , 176 sp

(($SP .50) 2) * 0.33 + 111) = 169.08 (176 sp)

added dmg after mastery / racial = 169.08x1.184x1.05 = 210.2

melee range 1232 - 1423 (already affected by mastery / racial )

expected felstorm dmg with no double dips = 1442 - 1633

actual dmg = 1838 - 2053

Still not sure which modifiers on pets are multiplicative or additive but simc shows orc racial being additive with glyphs for pet spells. Possible mastery is additive with racial.

Confirmed mastery is multiplicative on simc so it should be right.

Legion strike is also not right, now that I'm checking numbers. It's hitting for 1900+ on single target and it should have a lower scaling than felstorm without talents lol

[bonfax4]

Actual formula for Felstorm / Legion strike should be smthing like this if we follow simc additive/multiplicative rules :

• Felstorm : [melee + (($SP .50) 2) 0.33 + 111)] mastery * racial
• Legion strike : [melee + (($SP .50) 2) 0.264 + 111)] mastery (glyph + racial) dark arts talent

Melee in both these scenarios is pet dmg before modifiers, no double dips.

[jlldarocha]

According to the comments on felguard issue log from apollo, both legion strike and felstorm DO double dip from mastery and racial, multiplying both on the weapon damage and on the end.

Language is kinda harsh because its google translate from czech

[bonfax4]

i've seen that but he corrected himself later on if you follow the thread. The latest formula he arrived at is close to mine (minus the additive glyph + racial for felstrike ). The fact you clipped that with no link is suspicious asf tho lol

https://cata-twinhead.twinstar.cz/?issue=3429

[jlldarocha]

thats because theres a post from a dev talking about the possible solutions, almost a month before this one you linked: they had to choose between double dip mastery or doubling the base weapon damage of the felguard (they went with that option)

[Pornoodemon]

To be honest, the wowhead formula itself looks very strange. I think that the multipliers in the formula are referring to something and not multiplying spell power by itself twice, otherwise why would it even need so much math. (($SP .50) 2) 0,33 + 111)] This is not logical even from the point of view of code optimization It would be much easier to just take sp 0.3+ weapon damage or something like that.

[bonfax4]

That is not a dev... all devs are color coded there.... and why is the basis comparing to twinstar ? run simc or try to find a video and compare data. Simc usually alerts when certain stuff double dips.

Edit: Just did the simc math and it actually checks out with the formula i posted, no double dips. Boss armor is @ 40% reduction if you wanna test yourself and make sure you remove trinkets, pre pots , temporary sp / mastery buffs. Nvm just realized sim uses a 0.231 instead of 0.33 multiplier for some reason.

[bonfax4]

To be honest, the wowhead formula itself looks very strange. I think that the multipliers in the formula are referring to something and not multiplying spell power by itself twice, otherwise why would it even need so much math. (($SP .50) 2) 0,33 + 111)] This is not logical even from the point of view of code optimization It would be much easier to just take sp 0.3+ weapon damage or something like that.

matches the tooltip exactly tho

[Pornoodemon]

At 10 k sp, the difference in increase will be in the range of 600-1200 damage. If it should work like this at all. In general, I would not touch this pet at all. works relatively well. In pvp when you have armor and resilience this will add 300-600 damage at bes Given the fact that this is physical damage, then everyone who feels the difference in the correction is wild boars in a durotar. Is it worth it to do it

[bonfax4]

At 10 k sp, the difference in increase will be in the range of 600-1200 damage. If it should work like this at all. In general, I would not touch this pet at all. works relatively well. In pvp when you have armor and resilience this will add 300-600 damage at bes Given the fact that this is physical damage, then everyone who feels the difference in the correction is wild boars in a durotar. Is it worth it to do it

Mastery would be the prob not sp. SP portion of this wouldn't change at all actually since it would not double dip

[Pornoodemon]

I just really don't understand if it makes sense to turn the world upside down to find out if your pet in full season 11 will have an extra 500-700 physical damage. This is still leveled out due to resilience and armor up to 200 extra damage at the most 500 at the moment of burst

__ For example, I have 100% proof that Gargoyle damage is increased by about 25-30%. But I do not want to open this topic again and argue with the developer. She is now working + - normally and the hell with her

[bonfax4]

Well it's posted and it's not blizzlike. If they decide not to touch it it's up to them. You should report the gargoyle as well dk's are broken as is.

[bonfax4]

After further testing this I realized simcraft is actually using a different mod for spellpower scaling on the ability (0.231). To match close to simc using the same profile stats values, it has to double dip somewhere but I can't figure out exactly, but its def not calculating it like twinstar is.

Now the actual formula the server seems to be using for felstorm is ( melee <- pet panel value with mast/racial + ( xtra dmg formula mastery racial )) mastery racial ) and the values seem to kinda match with what I'm seeing. Also ended up logging on twinstar to check if the numbers were similar and I'm doing more dmg this server, same conditions.

[Pornoodemon]

Perhaps twinstar is using a formula from Simcraft which is most likely a mistake on their error Twinstar can just as be wrong. It's not blizz. Perhaps it works correctly for us and worse for Twinstar, or vice versa. I wouldn't bother as the deviation is not significant.

But the HP of pets and especially ebon imp(only 2 k hp and the developer does not react x( is much more important at this moment He is just farmed for kill buffs, dk,war , and other

[bonfax4]

I just need to know the exact % reduction on boss level units and the actual player sp to pet AP formula and I can compare to that retail video and see if it's close or not. But I tried having similar levels of sp to the retail video on twinstar and the dmg is off by a good difference (600+ more and it will only get worse ofc when you factor mastery and sp procs ) so you know their formula is also wrong somewhere anyway.

[UltraNix]

Spell Power < 500 are to small to test (pets get 50% of it).

Torment formula: ${$M1+(0.512*($SP*0.5))} Shadowstrike damage. M1 is 729,45 at 85 lvl. So we have 729,45+(0.512*($SP*0.5))

Tested in dumy with 41 armor and 0 shadow resi. Pet have already 2690 SP from me (already double dip by Demonic Pact). So we have now: 0,512 2690 = ~1377 1377 + ~730 (base value of Torment) = 2107 2100 1,27 (My mastery) = 2667 * 1,27 (it's shadow + physical, so it takes 2x mastery) = 3387

On boss dummy: The thing is that simcraft defines Torment as shadow, not shadowstrike

[bonfax4]

I only used simc as crit reference tbh. But anyway Is mastery double dipping normal in that scenario ?

Do multischool spells double dip dmg buffs then too ?

What happens let's say you're immune to physical dmg, how much dmg does torment do ?

[UltraNix]

I think it should takes only shadow modifiers, as armor is always higher than shadow resi? EDIT: Right now, if target is immuned to physical dmg, it does 0 dmg.

[bonfax4]

Hmm ok then iss frostfire bolt / starsurge getting 2x mod if you get any buff to all damage then ?

[UltraNix]

These spells take two "spell/magic" resistances. Amor is a little bit tricky. And yep - looks like e.g. starsurge takes both nature and arcane damage bonuses. Not sure if it's okay/blizzlike.

[bonfax4]

Yh I knew that part but buffs to all dmg double dip seems weird.. Found a random discussion saying it it's additive when it's increased to single schools and no double dip on all dmg but looking around still. Wowwiki doesn't explain that part. Either way torment is not critting.

Anyway can you also tell me what's the warlock SP to pet AP conversion formula ? It's def not 0.57% like the game suggests, it's closer to 100%.

[UltraNix]

It's something around 106% at 85 lvl.

[UltraNix]

@bonfax4 Poke me on Discord.

[UltraNix]

About double dipping on Felstorm: Yes - Felguard takes extra bonus from Demonic Pact and an extra modifier at 85 lvl when calculating attack power, according to simcraft.

virtual double composite_attack_power() const
  {
    double ap = pet_t::composite_attack_power();
    ap += owner -> composite_spell_power( SCHOOL_MAX ) * ( level / 80.0 ) * owner -> composite_spell_power_multiplier();
    return ap;
  }

Also, it's not normalized weapon damage, thus all modifiers are already calculated (included mastery).

[UltraNix]

Fixed.