Feral Druids and MM Hunters over scaling on Whitemane

[Renehadox]

Description:

35k chimera crits are not even possible in Cataclysmic gear, 15k rip and rake dots are not possible in ruthless season let alone in cataclysmic season. These two classes are overtuned, overscaled and overbuffed on Whitemane.

as shown in the video here below this guy soloes feral druid and MM hunter in 2v2 arena without any special problems while this thing on Whitemane is impossible, never ever can anyone do that:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qz_UsX3i0Vk&ab_channel=LoppyMaus

10:24 - 12:20

Check the damage of Feral and the Hunter on his screen, on a freaking CATACLYSMIC season.

Only on Whitemane hunters are doing 35k chimera shot crits while in bloodthirsty gear??

How to reproduce:

Check the database for chimera shot, aimed shot and other shots base damage and their amplifiers and scaling with buffs talents etc etc.

How it should work:

Database links:

https://cata-twinhead.twinstar.cz/?spell=19434 - Aimed Shot

https://cata-twinhead.twinstar.cz/?spell=3044 - Arcane Shot

https://cata-twinhead.twinstar.cz/?spell=53209 - Chimera Shot

https://cata-twinhead.twinstar.cz/?spell=53351 - Kill Shot

https://cata-twinhead.twinstar.cz/?spell=1079 - Rip

https://cata-twinhead.twinstar.cz/?spell=1822 - Rake

https://cata-twinhead.twinstar.cz/?spell=33876 - Mangle

https://cata-twinhead.twinstar.cz/?spell=5221 - Shred

https://cata-twinhead.twinstar.cz/?spell=22568 - Ferocious Bite

[Sketish]

Feral on your video was undergeared

https://youtu.be/9izGNEgc14A?t=14 he got 36k crit vs low gear player but w/o any procs or trinkets

https://youtu.be/9izGNEgc14A?t=29 again

Trinket with agi on use will prolly add more agi than next season gear or it will be very close so dont see a bug there

[Pornoodemon]

I don’t know about hunters. But the damage of feral druids is clearly overestimated, and this is noted by many players and even those who play for them. If you look at this not at first glance, it’s as if the damage from their DOT is too high. I play as a demonologist and in a state of metamorphosis I have 67 k Armor! and in addition I have 4k resistance(-40% damage) and in addition Soul link reduces damage by another 25%. With all this, " DOT" feral druids sometimes deal 15k crit damage, which is theoretically impossible ,since this is physical damage, But I can’t say anything more specific since I haven’t conducted any tests.

[Renehadox]

Feral on your video was undergeared

https://youtu.be/9izGNEgc14A?t=14 he got 36k crit vs low gear player but w/o any procs or trinkets

https://youtu.be/9izGNEgc14A?t=29 again

Trinket with agi on use will prolly add more agi than next season gear or it will be very close so dont see a bug there

The Feral on my video was undergeared?

143k hp and he is undergeared?

Sketish as far as I know this is Cataclysm and not Mists of Pandaria.

The hunter in your video is full cataclysmic gear with PvE hc trinket, Bow and Weapon probably cause of his HP.

165k hp he has.

A Ret Paladin soloing MM hunter / Feral Druid here is mission impossible.

This guy on the video i posted is tanking them for 2 minutes???

Don't tell me that there is not a bug here when it clearly is.

The guy above me posted some interesting comment.

This hunter was bloodthirsty geared:

https://db.whitemane.org/armory/maelstrom/Cowmerashot

How did a bloodthirsty geared hunter did 31680 chimera shot on a full pvp geared ret paladin with armor aura turned on and with full resi gems???

24k aimed shot ?

All of his spells were crits on me ?

A possible exploit or an abuse maybe?

You should consider this report developer..

[djesic]

Bleeds don't care about armor Chimera shot is nature damage, not physical High agility = high critical chance I got hit for 50k with templars verdict and that is physical damage, should I make a ticket for ret damage?

Low quality report

[Renehadox]

Developer you should google the base damage of these spells and their spell coefficients AP SP benefits and check the database if it corresponds to the base damage values.

35k chimera shot in bloodthirsty gear is not possible, at least he was bloodthirsty geared back when we fought now he has ruthless gear.

[Pornoodemon]

Bleeds don't care about armor Chimera shot is nature damage, not physical High agility = high critical chance I got hit for 50k with templars verdict and that is physical damage, should I make a ticket for ret damage?

Low quality report

I repeat, even without taking into account armor. 15-18k crit Dot At -40% and -25% (Soul link) 15-18k crit these are some sky-high values. for this ability feral dru. In my memory, the Chimera shot always caused significant damage and I can’t judge how correct it is now, but the over scaling Feral of the druids is felt even by the Feral dru

[Renehadox]

Bleeds don't care about armor Chimera shot is nature damage, not physical High agility = high critical chance I got hit for 50k with templars verdict and that is physical damage, should I make a ticket for ret damage?

Low quality report

Someone is playing Feral Druid, MM Hunter or both of them so he tries to dismiss my report.

Nice try tho.

[djesic]

Nope, just played retail cataclysm in 4.2 and know for a fact that hunter and feral were top damage dealers in PvP, same for arcane mage.

[Renehadox]

Nope, just played retail cataclysm in 4.2 and know for a fact that hunter and feral were top damage dealers in PvP, same for arcane mage.

It is a known fact that Feral Druids, MM Hunters and Sub rogues are overscaled on Whitemane.

Even the players at top arena who plays those classed admitted those facts.

Whats your point?

No wonder literally every second combo on whitemane is rogue mm hunter or feral mm hunter.

Because the classes are not working as intended.

A Ret Paladin on Retail is tanking feral MM hunter for 2 minutes, on Whitemane a Ret Paladin cannot tank Feral Druid MM Hunter for 2 seconds.

And you are trying to say that's legit ?

Who are you trying to fool here bro? I also played during Cataclysm retail and i wasn't getting 15k dots from ferals, its not Mists of Pandaria.

[djesic]

My point is that this is a low quality report. No reproducibility, just a hunch that "some damage is wrong, developer please google it"

[Hermeleen]

I don’t know about hunters. But the damage of feral druids is clearly overestimated, and this is noted by many players and even those who play for them. If you look at this not at first glance, it’s as if the damage from their DOT is too high. I play as a demonologist and in a state of metamorphosis I have 67 k Armor! and in addition I have 4k resistance(-40% damage) and in addition Soul link reduces damage by another 25%. With all this, " DOT" feral druids sometimes deal 15k crit damage, which is theoretically impossible ,since this is physical damage, But I can’t say anything more specific since I haven’t conducted any tests.

What it "feels" like and nobody can tell me otherwise, that there is something wrong with damage scaling. it feels like "diminishing returns" going the other way. The more procs and cds you have up, you do more damage, than you should. Like there is exponential curve instead of linear "in there somewhere". i clearly remember literally one shotting mage in a bg and he has at least 3k resil. (heroic pve otherwise, not noob), He got cauterized in 1 verdict. i had all procs and also took berzerk. But 130k verdict into -30% damage taken from resilience, would be around 170k verdict normally, and i don't know about that :D if i should sum up my "feeling" of gameplay, i say there is exponential curve instead of linear somewhere in outcoming damage formula.

[Crusaderz]

A Ret Paladin on Retail is tanking feral MM hunter for 2 minutes

you're obviously exaggerating things. He didn't tank them for two minutes, when they started dpsing him at 10:35 the hunter was already at 34% life with 18 focus (not even enough for Arcane Shot) and druid at 58%. After 10:35 the hunter lived for 24 seconds, and half of that time the druid was trying to save him by healing him, not doing damage to paladin.

[Pornoodemon]

Assessing damage based on Cata video battles is not at all correct for bug reports. For example, I cannot ask to increase the damage to demons based on this video) https://youtu.be/rivxK2hLHZY?si=POZKMJ-rh4rlpuFf&t=562 https://youtu.be/rivxK2hLHZY?si=KyFImsO6YNVnOWR3&t=261 https://youtu.be/rivxK2hLHZY?si=I7STyOraLePxPwnd&t=374 Need objective assessment and testing. As a player, from the outside I understand that ferals have inflated damage and paladins too for some abilities. But unfortunately I don’t have time to test all this step by step. I'm not sure about the hunters.

[Renehadox]

A Ret Paladin on Retail is tanking feral MM hunter for 2 minutes

you're obviously exaggerating things. He didn't tank them for two minutes, when they started dpsing him at 10:35 the hunter was already at 34% life with 18 focus (not even enough for Arcane Shot) and druid at 58%. After 10:35 the hunter lived for 24 seconds, and half of that time the druid was trying to save him by healing him, not doing damage to paladin.

That's unimportant.

He still survived against and Feral Druid and MM Hunter and he 1 v 2 them.

On Whitemane this is mission impossible.

[Pornoodemon]

On Whitemane this is mission impossible. This is also an impossible mission) x) 100 k doombolt Doom Guard https://youtu.be/rivxK2hLHZY?si=BV6PULeGoCToZx4x&t=331 it doesn't even reach half the damage of what's in the video. But objectively I understand that the Doom guard +- works normally.

[Renehadox]

On Whitemane this is mission impossible.

Dude he is demo lock with full pve gear fully buffed, flask plus potion, he even mentioned that in the video.

you are comparing demo lock to a ret paladin.

[Mongo69]

Someone should ban this guy by now,making false reports one after another

There's literally nothing wrong with either hunt nor feral dmg,it's called s11 scaling on 4.3 patch

Also you're linking videos from s11 where ppl have 5k+ resi compare to 4k'ish over here

U shouldn't even complaing considering both ret and demo lock dmg is overscaled here(your own classes) (especially demo doin 2-3x more dmg)

And last but not least you're wotlk player,u said u r new to cata so why tf are u making reports on things u have no clue about

[mipanka]

there are no formulas, calculations and other things, more like whining. At least try using the dr.DMG addon, as a first step, or better yet, look for formulas and make a high-quality recalculation of the damage

[Pornoodemon]

никаких формул, расчетов и прочего нет, больше похоже на нытье. Хотя бы попробуйте использовать аддон dr.DMG, для начала, а еще лучше поищите формулы и сделайте качественный пересчет урона

Дак я о том же . Он строчит тикеты один за другим сравнивая урон в видосах даже не по конкретных характеристикам а чисто по комплектам предметов . По типу " У меня выше илвл но меньше дамаг " А пример с думгвардом это просто показатель некоректности сравнения урона ..Он не будет бить так же как на видео . Но он какой-то неугомонний .Но этот тип меня как то не так понял

[Pornoodemon]

Сс

The usual set of buffs) Without any procs. This warlock has 391 ilvl pve items. It's not even full pve. So what should we do?Create a ticket? But that's not what I'm talking about. I’m trying to explain to you that you are doing nonsense when you compare damage from video. It is not correct to create tickets without at least having exact characteristics for comparison.

[bonfax4]

@Renehadox Go ahead and test everything and let us know the results :)

https://web.archive.org/web/20140430052552/http://forums.elitistjerks.com/topic/109357-hunter-faq-cataclysm-edition-read-this-before-asking-questions/

Weapon damage is typically calculated as: avg dmg of the weapon + RAP / 14 * 2.8 If the shot is not normalized then 2.8 is replaced with the speed of the weapon.

Aimed Shot - (100% weapon dmg + 72.4% RAP + 776) 160% + 100 - tested 2/22 Arcane Shot - 100% weapon dmg + 4.83% RAP + 290.5 - tested 2/8 Black Arrow - 66.5% RAP + 2849 (total damage) - changed 6/28 in 4.2 (based off spell crit multiplier, modified by toxicology) Chimera Shot - 100% weapon dmg + 73.2% RAP + 1620 - tested 2/8 Cobra Shot - 100% weapon dmg + 1.7% RAP + 277.21 - tested 12/19 Explosive Shot - 27.3% RAP + 448 (per tick) - changed 11/29 in 4.3 Explosive Trap - 54.6% RAP + 296 (total damage), initial damage is 5.46% RAP + 223 - changed 6/28 in 4.2 (initial damage uses physical crit multiplier, ticks use spell crit multiplier) Immolation Trap - 10% RAP + 2880.6 (total damage) Kill Command - 51.6% RAP + 918 - tested 2/12 (might be slightly off) Kill Shot - (100% weapon dmg + 45% RAP + 543) 150% - confirmed by testing on 7/30 Multi-Shot - 120% weapon dmg (not normalized) - changed 6/28 in 4.2 Serpent Sting - 40% RAP + 460 (based off spell crit multiplier, modified by toxicology) Steady Shot - 100% weapon dmg + 2.1% RAP + 280

Formula for chimaera is also on the changelog here for 4.3

[bonfax4]

Rake - 56 + 14.7% * AP direct / 56 + 14.7% ap dot

Rip - 56 + 161 combo points + 0.0207 combo points AP. ( 0.0207 AP per point)

All these formulas posted are done before any modifiers are applied ofc.

[Crusaderz]

That's unimportant.

He still survived against and Feral Druid and MM Hunter and he 1 v 2 them.

That's a very stupid statement. context is important, in your video it's actually 1vs1 against a druid who has already used all the burst CDs on the paladin's partner. And even in that case, the paladin won because he got lucky with procs.

[Renehadox]

Someone should ban this guy by now,making false reports one after another

There's literally nothing wrong with either hunt nor feral dmg,it's called s11 scaling on 4.3 patch

Also you're linking videos from s11 where ppl have 5k+ resi compare to 4k'ish over here

U shouldn't even complaing considering both ret and demo lock dmg is overscaled here(your own classes) (especially demo doin 2-3x more dmg)

And last but not least you're wotlk player,u said u r new to cata so why tf are u making reports on things u have no clue about

A Hunter player just revealed himself out of the shadows.

Someone with a name " Mongo69 " shouldn't be taken seriously.

How do you know i am from wotlk and i have no clue about the game?

" considering both ret and demo lock dmg is overscaled here " lol what?

Get out of here and never come back.