geneontology / go-ontology

Source ontology files for the Gene Ontology
http://geneontology.org/page/download-ontology
Creative Commons Attribution 4.0 International
220 stars 40 forks source link

Obsoletion request: [non programmed cell death terms] #24680

Closed ValWood closed 1 year ago

ValWood commented 1 year ago

Please provide as much information as you can:

After discussion with @pgaudet @sylvainpoux

Screenshot 2023-01-11 at 12 58 35

So here will obsolete GO:0008219 cell death

https://github.com/geneontology/go-ontology/issues/24652

cell death 97

consider programmed cell death or descendant

necrotic cell death (12)

consider programmed necrotic cell death or descendant

GO:0070267 oncosis

consider programmed cell death or descendant

InterPro:IPR042377 -> programmed cell death?


Checklist for ontology editor

Check term usage and metadata in Protégé

'cell death' is a category in MGI slim/ribbon and Alliance slim/ribbon <== could switch to 'programmed cell death' (shorten to 'cell death'?) subset: goslim_agr subset: goslim_chembl subset: goslim_drosophila subset: goslim_mouse subset: goslim_plant

Check annotations

Notification

ValWood commented 1 year ago

I forgot to include

    GO:0010941    regulation of cell death 
    GO:0060548    negative regulation of cell death 
    GO:0010942    positive regulation of cell death 

in this ticket, but these have no direct annotations, only inherited. I will update at the same time, and update the announcement.

pgaudet commented 1 year ago

Actually there are hundereds of EXP annotations :

ValWood commented 1 year ago

regulation terms in a new ticket https://github.com/geneontology/go-ontology/issues/24755

paolaroncaglia commented 1 year ago

@ValWood @pgaudet Hi, I hope this finds you well :-) I don't object to the obsoletion of non-programmed cell death terms. But in case it's helpful, here's the relevant section of the Apoptosis Curation Manual. Very happy for annotations to be revised! Thanks for your work and I look forward to seeing you in Padua, I hope.

ValWood commented 1 year ago

OK, we should update the manual to remove the references to annotating cell death when you do not know that it is programmed. It has encouraged the annotation of essential genes and cytotoxic mutations to cell death (phenotypes and readouts), which are outside the scope of GO. It has also resulted in many annotation not being made to specific cell death pathways when they could be.

ValWood commented 1 year ago

Look forward to seeing you also!

pfey03 commented 1 year ago

GO 2 updated and one deleted. I agree that programmed necrotic cell death for dicty is different than the examples given in GO term and it's difficult to decide. But when they add cAMP and then DIF-1 to atg1- cells they go into necrotic cell death and I think it qualifies as programmed.

I'm also looking forward to seeing everyone!

hattrill commented 1 year ago

Hi Val, as obsoletion of cell death looks like it will cause some issues for phenotype (FlyBase/drosophila-phenotype-ontology#162), we would need a bit of time to sort this out. Could you keep the cell death parent until we've worked out a solution? (Perhaps mark as do not annotate for now?)

pfey03 commented 1 year ago

For us phenotypes are also the bigger headache

ValWood commented 1 year ago

Note that you can use PATO to define cell lethality. You don't need to use this GO term in your phenotype ontology logical definitions to define cell death.

In FYPO we use 'has part' some ('lethal (sensu genetics)' and ('characteristic of' some 'fungal cell'))

for any old cell death (and various descendants)

I'm happy to postpone the obsoletion and add "do not annotate" if it helps. I will do that soon, and reorganize the ontology so this is a temporary "do not annotate" stub.

checking with @pgaudet that this is OK..

pfey03 commented 1 year ago

On the next UPHENO call I will bring examples and we will discuss patterns

pfey03 commented 1 year ago

If anyone from Flybase would be on the call would help. The next call is on Thursday February 9 11am central time

ValWood commented 1 year ago

Hi Petra where is the sign up for these calls? I need to join them.

pfey03 commented 1 year ago

There is no signup. Anyone can join it's Thursdays every two weeks, my time in Chicago at 11:00, for you in UK at 17:00. Here is the link to the records and to zoom: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1WrQanAMuccS-oaoAIb9yWQAd4Rvy3R3mU01v9wHbriM/

hattrill commented 1 year ago

So the next upheno is on the 9th Feb. I will join the next one as will some other members of FB.

pfey03 commented 1 year ago

@ValWood @hattrill If you have any cell death or necrotic cell death phenotype annotations bring a few examples I also bring a few from Dicty

ValWood commented 1 year ago

If you have any cell death or necrotic cell death phenotype annotations

I have 1662 genes (but many more annotations) https://www.pombase.org/results/from/id/22024c98-a4b1-4fc3-8e3d-1154e94bc916 That's the point, these don't belong in GO.

pgaudet commented 1 year ago

@ValWood I updated the wiki https://wiki.geneontology.org/Apoptosis_Curation_Manual to explain that we obsoleted some terms, and that we only recommend annotating when the mechanism of death is known.

ValWood commented 1 year ago

So, once all the annotations are removed, I'll remove all of the non-programmed cell death children. I'll keep the"cell death" term for the time being with a "do not annotate" label until the phenotype ontologies have an alternative solution.

pfey03 commented 1 year ago

@ValWood Thanks! I think we are close to solution in pheno.

ValWood commented 1 year ago

Add do not annotate to GO:0008219 cell death

obsolete GO:0070267 oncosis

obsolete GO:0070265 necrotic cell death once RGD (1) and WormBase (4) done

pfey03 commented 1 year ago

@ValWood The term cell death how long will it stay as 'do not annotate' Will it stay or will it be obsoleted eventually?

ValWood commented 1 year ago

It will be obsoleted once uPHENO have an alternative mechanism to logically define phenotypes.

sbello commented 1 year ago

@ValWood This was discussed again at the UPheno call today (minutes here https://docs.google.com/document/d/1WrQanAMuccS-oaoAIb9yWQAd4Rvy3R3mU01v9wHbriM/edit?usp=sharing) and even if we can devise a plan for defining this using PATO we then lose the connection to the GO terms for programmed ell death and programmed necrotic cell death. We want to keep all the cell death terms grouped UPheno. Would it not be possible to keep cell death as a grouping term for the programmed children? @dosumis

ValWood commented 1 year ago

Hi @sbello @dosumis Can discuss with @pgaudet tomorrow. I don't think we would have a problem leaving it semi-indefinitely with a "do not annotate" flag, although it would seem odd, I guess we could add a comment why it is there. uPHENO might want to do something different eventually if you need a "real" logical definition for cell death (it doesn't have a logical definition in GO, so GO is providing the structure, but no content in terms of real equivalence axioms).

dosumis commented 1 year ago

We don't need a full logical definition* - just the subClassOf hierarchy. Grouping terms for entities are often needed to define terms in phenotype ontologies - as what can be inferred from a phenotype is often vague. GO is the only reference ontology we have for biological process, so a bias against keeping grouping terms leaves us in a bind. Keeping them and adding 'do no annotate' for GO purposes would make our lives much easier.

(*I think 'real' logical definitions should be used sparingly - restricted to places where they do useful work, rather than being an end in themselves).

addiehl commented 1 year ago

+1 to David's comment about the value of grouping terms

ValWood commented 1 year ago

We are not proposing to get rid of grouping terms generally. We are keeping "cell death" term to be pragmatic for uPHENO because they want to use it to group non-programmed cell death phenotypes which are out of scope for GO. However, "cell death' will be single inheritance which is not good ontology practice. Programmed cell death would be sufficient as a grouping term for GO.

pfey03 commented 1 year ago

@ValWood There are other grouping terms that are do not annotate, but necessary for grouping. I understand that programmed cell death could serve this for GO but what makes it such a problem to keep cell death as a do not annotate. The non programmed necrotic cell death or such are gone and that's fine and cleans it up already.

pfey03 commented 1 year ago

@Val, is cell death with these extensive comments now to stay? This would be awesome, please let us know.

ValWood commented 1 year ago

Obsoletion request: [GO:0010941, GO:0060548, GO:0010942 Were covered in https://github.com/geneontology/go-ontology/issues/24755

ValWood commented 1 year ago

So in summary, We don't have a problem with grouping terms per se, but the term "cell death" will no longer be a grouping term, because it is single inheritance, therefore completely unnecessary (an meaningless) in GO. There is a possibility that "cell killing" may go under here, which will make it multiple inheritance and therefore a valid term https://github.com/geneontology/go-ontology/issues/25174 if you have any thoughts on this please comment in the ticket. this needs to be discussed at the editors meeting.

For now, we can keep the term with comments, even if it ends up as single inheritance, but it isn't best practice. Ideally there would be a better solution in the future.

ValWood commented 1 year ago

Unable to proceed because annotated regulation terms still exist https://github.com/geneontology/go-ontology/issues/25218

dosumis commented 1 year ago

So in summary, We don't have a problem with grouping terms per se, but the term "cell death" will no longer be a grouping term, because it is single inheritance, therefore completely unnecessary (an meaningless) in GO. There is a possibility that "cell killing" may go under here, which will make it multiple inheritance and therefore a valid term

25174 https://github.com/geneontology/go-ontology/issues/25174 if you have any thoughts on this please comment in the ticket.

this needs to be discussed at the editors meeting.

For now, we can keep the term with comments, even if it ends up as single inheritance, but it isn't best practice. Ideally there would be a better solution in the future.

I have no idea what this means. What has single vs multiple inheritance got to do with the issue?

ValWood commented 1 year ago

Because once the obsoletions are completed, "cell death" will have only one descendant, "programmed cell death".

ValWood commented 1 year ago

I think I am using the wrong terminology. I mean it only has a single sub-class.

ValWood commented 1 year ago

Hi @pgaudet how do I flag the "cell death" term as "do not annotate"

pgaudet commented 1 year ago

See https://wiki.geneontology.org/Adding_a_Term_to_a_GO_Subset_(Slim)

ValWood commented 1 year ago

@pgaudet I edited the comment

from This term should not be used for direct annotation. The only exception should be when experimental data (e.g., staining with trypan blue or propidium iodide) show that cell death has occurred, but fail to provide details on death modality (accidental versus programmed). When information is provided on the cell death mechanism, annotations should be made to the appropriate descendant of 'cell death' (such as, but not limited to, GO:0097300 'programmed necrotic cell death' or GO:0006915 'apoptotic process'). Also, if experimental data suggest that a gene product influences cell death indirectly, rather than being involved in the death process directly, consider annotating to a 'regulation' term.

to: This term should not be used for direct annotation, it is currently kept in GO as a placeholder for describing cell death phenotypes in uPHENO. When information is provided on a programmed cell death mechanism, annotations should be made to the appropriate descendant of 'cell death' (such as, but not limited to, GO:0097300 'programmed necrotic cell death' or GO:0006915 'apoptotic process'). Unintentional cell death, i.e. cell death caused by injury, ageing, or cell phenotypes observed as a result of a pathological mutation in an essential gene should NOT be annotated using GO terms.

pgaudet commented 4 months ago

@ValWood @sbello @dosumis

Does UPHENO need to refer to GO 'cell death'? Keeping this is not ideal for GO

image

Is there another way this can be handled? Even if we put 'do not annotate' tags on terms, depending on the tools, some groups still manage to get annotations through, so we go around adding/removing annotations.

ValWood commented 4 months ago

I think it would be a problem until the concept of "cell death" is somewhere else. Could this go in PATO?

ValWood commented 4 months ago

I notice that PATO does have concepts around viability at the organism level (but not cell level) https://www.ebi.ac.uk/ols4/ontologies/pato/classes/http%253A%252F%252Fpurl.obolibrary.org%252Fobo%252FPATO_0001422?lang=en

I think the problem might have been a way to group all types of cell death (if this is required?)

pgaudet commented 4 months ago

OK - but 'viability' is very different from the GO concept of cell death. Seems quite misleading.

ValWood commented 4 months ago

Yes, but it has been used in creating logical defs for population viability for phenotype annotations for microrgs (mainly dicty), which is a completely different thing.

I tried to explain this (but probably not very well). We never added logical definitions for population death in FYPO for this reason.

I'm not sure what the other use cases are where a programmed cell death term can't be used. Maybe things like cell lysis but this is still viability and it isn't what the GO "cell death" term means.