Canvas editor selection menu shortcuts are pathological under *nix

[seadra]

This issue is about #2786

Under Linux and BSDs, Alt+Right Click or Alt+Click don't even go to any app by default. These shortcuts respectively scale and move windows (handled by the window manager).

[reduz]

yeah you will have to disable that in your window manager. It's the same story with Blender and other software.

On Sat, Nov 21, 2015 at 3:18 PM, seadra notifications@github.com wrote:

This issue is about #2786 https://github.com/godotengine/godot/pull/2786

Under Linux and BSDs, Alt+Right Click or Alt+Click don't even go to any app by default. These shortcuts respectively scale and move windows.

— Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub https://github.com/godotengine/godot/issues/2860.

[seadra]

Not, it's not. In Blender and other software, the norm is, you change the shortcut in the software. You don't ask your users to change their global X11/WM settings just for your program.

Seriously, you're asking me to change a desktop shortcut that is in use for more than 20 years. It's no different that assigning a shortcut to Alt+F4. That's just crazy.

You should either allow users change the shortcuts, or change this crazy default shortcut.

[reduz]

changing shortcuts will not happen for a while, so get used to it

On Sat, Nov 21, 2015 at 3:28 PM, seadra notifications@github.com wrote:

Not, it's not. In Blender https://www.blender.org/manual/modeling/meshes/selecting/edges.html and other software, the norm is, you change the shortcut in the software. You don't tell to change your users to change their global X11 just for your program.

Seriously, you're asking me to change a desktop shortcut that is in use for more than 20 years. It's no different that assigning a shortcut to Alt+F4. That's just crazy.

You should either allow users change the shortcuts, or change this crazy shortcut.

— Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub https://github.com/godotengine/godot/issues/2860#issuecomment-158670677.

[seadra]

get used to it

Are you fucking kidding me?

[reduz]

nope, being able to customize shortcuts is not a priority until 3.0, so you will have to be patient and live with it or use Unity, which is now available for Linux :)

On Sat, Nov 21, 2015 at 3:32 PM, seadra notifications@github.com wrote:

get used to it

Are you fucking kidding me?

— Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub https://github.com/godotengine/godot/issues/2860#issuecomment-158670853.

[seadra]

No, that's what I'm not talking about. This is a one-liner change, just change this

if (!b.pressed && tool==TOOL_SELECT && b.mod.alt) {

to

if (!b.pressed && tool==TOOL_SELECT && b.mod.alt && b.mod.shift) {

or something similar. Why are you trying to make our lives difficult? No one is going to change an established global *nix shortcut just to make some popup work in godot.

Seriously, why are you resisting to change this pathological, hard-coded shortcut?

Unity for Linux ATM is really really buggy BTW.

[reduz]

Hey, Blender was around for 10 years before they allowed shortcut customization and no one died because of it.

So let's see what happens first then, Godot allowing customizable shortcuts, or Unity becoming stable on Linux

On Sat, Nov 21, 2015 at 3:39 PM, seadra notifications@github.com wrote:

No, that's what I'm not talking about. This is a one-liner change, just change this

if (!b.pressed && tool==TOOL_SELECT && b.mod.alt) {

to

if (!b.pressed && tool==TOOL_SELECT && b.mod.alt && b.mod.shift) {

or something similar. What are you trying to make our lives difficult. No one is going to change an established global *nix shortcut just to make some popup work in godot.

Seriously, why are you resisting to change this pathological, hard-coded shortcut?

Unity for Linux ATM is really really buggy BTW.

— Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub https://github.com/godotengine/godot/issues/2860#issuecomment-158671169.

[seadra]

No, for god's sake, forget about shortcut customization!

Why don't you just change the hard-coded shortcut? It hasn't appeared in any public release yet, so I'm pretty sure no one is used to Alt+RMB in godot yet.

[seadra]

Just change it to Shift+Alt+RMB or whatever and everyone (at least both Windows and Linux users) will be happy.

[reduz]

well, just change it in your version. To be honest, there are plenty of Unix WMs and they all use different sets of hardcoded key combinations, so I don't give two cents about complying with Unix WMs. Making a shortcut more difficult to use in OSX and Windows because a Unix WMs choose to take control of dozens of key combinations is a no in my book.

On Sat, Nov 21, 2015 at 3:43 PM, seadra notifications@github.com wrote:

No, for god's sake, forget about shortcut customization!

Why don't you just change the hard-coded shortcut? It hasn't appeared in any public release yet, so I'm pretty sure no one is used to Alt+RMB in godot yet.

— Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub https://github.com/godotengine/godot/issues/2860#issuecomment-158671367.

[reduz]

just change it yourself in your tree if it's a life or death situation for you. o far no one else complained. Most of us are used to dealing with Windows and OSX besides Linux so we can live without that shortcut in the WM

On Sat, Nov 21, 2015 at 3:44 PM, seadra notifications@github.com wrote:

Just change it to Shift+Alt+RMB or whatever and everyone (at least both Windows and Linux users) will be happy.

— Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub https://github.com/godotengine/godot/issues/2860#issuecomment-158671451.

[seadra]

Unix WMs and they all use different sets of hardcoded key combinations, so I don't give two cents about complying with Unix WMs.

You're trying to paint it as if Alt+RMB is some obscure shortcut on certain WMs. It's not. It's there in every single mainline WM. Grab and install any mainstream Linux distro, and that is what Alt+RMB will do.

Facts so far:

• This is a bug affecting all mainstream Linux users using out-of-the-box X11/WM settings.
• This shortcut appeared only 3 days ago in the code, and hasn't appeared in any public release. So of course 1) "so far no one else complained" is not a mystery 2) no one will miss it if you change it now
• The fix is a one-liner.
• You turned this trivial change into a power-play
• You basically said you don't give a rat's ass about Linux users

What is resisting the change just because you can and you don't give a shit about Linux users, and because there is no reason for not making this change in your book?

[reduz]

Let linux users complain by themselves, don't speak for all of them

On Sat, Nov 21, 2015 at 3:58 PM, seadra notifications@github.com wrote:

Unix WMs and they all use different sets of hardcoded key combinations, so I don't give two cents about complying with Unix WMs.

You're trying to paint it as if Alt+RMB is some obscure shortcut on certain WMs. It's not. It's there is every single mainline WM. Grab and install any mainsteam Linux distro, and that is what Alt+RMB will do.

Facts so far:

• This is a bug for all mainsteam Linux users using out-of-the-box X11/WM settings.
• This shortcut appeared only 3 days ago in the code, and hasn't appeared in any public release. So of course 1) "so far no one else complained" is not a mystery 2) no one will miss it if you change it now
• The fix is a one-liner.
• You turned this trivial into a power-play
• You basically said you don't give a rat's ass about Linux users

What is resisting the change just because you can and you don't give a shit about Linux users, and because there is no reason of not making this change in your book?

— Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub https://github.com/godotengine/godot/issues/2860#issuecomment-158672384.

[seadra]

I'm not "speaking for all of them". In case you missed, the list "Facts so far" refer to facts, not some interpretation or a representative speech. Feel free to go back and read it over again now, with this in mind.

Apparently, I missed a fact about your attitude. And quite the attitude you have.

[seadra]

On the other hand, you saying you don't give a shit about Linux users is you speaking about all of them.

[reduz]

My attitude is very clear on this matter, I don't care about being compliant with stock Unix WMs. There are plenty more shortcuts that don't work in stock Unix WMs because you didn't figure they exist yet, so this is just one more. So far no one seems to care, and you seem to be the only one worried about this situation. If it's so bad for you, go and change it in the source code or disable it in the WM. There's nothing else I have to say about it.

On Sat, Nov 21, 2015 at 4:06 PM, seadra notifications@github.com wrote:

I'm not "speaking for all of them". In case you missed, the list "Facts so far" refer to facts, not some interpretation or a representative speech.

Apparently, I missed a fact about your attitude. And some attitude you have.

— Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub https://github.com/godotengine/godot/issues/2860#issuecomment-158672813.

[seadra]

My attitude is very clear on this matter, I don't care about being compliant with stock Unix WMs.

Yeah, I think we've already established the fact that you don't give a shit about Linux/BSD (and other FOSS OS) users. To the extent that you're refusing a one-liner, trivial, non-breaking fix that will fix a bug affecting almost all FOSS OS users out there. Please write this in your documentation and front page too.

It will help preventing a lot to FOSS people (including Software Freedom Conservancy) getting the wrong idea about you.

[reduz]

Users can now change the wiki on the website, so just ask for permission and do it yourself

On Sat, Nov 21, 2015 at 4:17 PM, seadra notifications@github.com wrote:

My attitude is very clear on this matter, I don't care about being compliant with stock Unix WMs.

Yeah, I think we've already established the fact that you don't give a shit about Linux/BSD users. Please write this in your documentation and front page too.

It will help a lot to FOSS people (including Software Freedom Conservancy) getting the wrong idead about you.

— Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub https://github.com/godotengine/godot/issues/2860#issuecomment-158673878.

[seadra]

Oh, please, more gems.

As if your company will let such a change stay there.

[seadra]

I've come to realize that Unity cares a lot more than you do about Linux users. Bye, Godot.

[reduz]

Let's get some things straight

1) Godot is no longer associated to any company, nor am I. It's part of the SFC now. 2) You behave as if you had paid for a closed source game engine and it's your right that it works the way you desire.

I hope you reconsider these two facts that you seem to have wrong. With that said, i'm closing this issue.

On Sat, Nov 21, 2015 at 4:21 PM, seadra notifications@github.com wrote:

Oh, please, more gems.

As if your company will let such a change stay there.

— Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub https://github.com/godotengine/godot/issues/2860#issuecomment-158675623.

[seadra]

1) Godot is no longer associated to any company, nor am I. It's part of the SFC now.

Yea yea, that's what we'll say when someone asks.

Then why does everything need an OK from okamstudio developers? Why is it OK for them to be tyrants, causing such trouble for FOSS OS users, and refusing to work with them to fix a bug that affects all? Why is it OK for them to irrationally reject important changes while stomping on users who are willing to fix it?

2) You behave as if you had paid for a closed source game engine and it's your right that it works the way you desire.

No I'm not.

I'm already in my 40s, and most of my professional life has been spent is FOSS word. There are people like you all over treating users who are making a valid point because they don't care, they're lazy, they wanna show they're in chage, they had a bad day, the bug doesn't affect their OS, or because they're just a constant ass, or whatever.

I frankly don't care which group you fall under. Just don't play the "don't act like you're paying me" card. If that was the case, you'd have been fired already. Not for your big attitude and ego, but for saying "I don't give a shit about FOSS OS users" just after we commited to getting into bed with the Conservancy. This is a whole world different that explaining a bug and the user-base it affects. See the difference?

[reduz]

Okam no longer exists, so there is no company behind Godot. I never said your point wasn't valid, it is very valid. It's just that I don't feel it's worth fixing at this point and I hope to implement shortcut customization as soon as possible after 2.0 is out so you can change it in a more elegant way.

Meanwhile, I don't want to make the shortcut more cumbersome for Windows and OSX users. This is why i'm suggesting to change it yourself in the code until shortcut customization happens.

On Sat, Nov 21, 2015 at 4:34 PM, seadra notifications@github.com wrote:

1) Godot is no longer associated to any company, nor am I. It's part of the SFC now.

Then why does everything need an OK from okamstudio developers? Why is it OK for them to be tyrants, causing such trouble for FOSS OS users, and refusing to work with them?

2) You behave as if you had paid for a closed source game engine and it's your right that it works the way you desire.

No I'm not.

I'm already in my 40s, and most of my professional life has been spent is FOSS word. There are people like you all over treating users who are making a valid point because they don't care, they're lazy, they wanna show they're in chage, they had a bad day, or because they're just a constant ass, or whatever.

I frankly don't care which group you fall under. Just don't play the "don't act like you're paying me" card. If that was the case, you'd been fired already. No for your attitude, but for saying "I don't give a shit about FOSS OS users" just after we commited to getting into bed with the Conservancy. This is a whole world different that explaining a bug and the user-base it affects. See the difference?

— Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub https://github.com/godotengine/godot/issues/2860#issuecomment-158676572.