C# as scripting language

[ghost]

I could not find any other issue mentioning this, so I suppose most discussion about it happened over IRC.

In #5049 we discussed some things about scripting, and some said the Godot team is considering C#.

C# is a great language with many features, but I personally think that considering Java 8 is a much better language than Java 6, has a better runtime across many platforms and a better JIT and GC than the CLR (unless things changed in the last year), Java could possibly be a better candidate.

Unity might use C#, however Godot never set out to be a Unity ripoff. Java is much more popular than C#, according to this site and job postings, and there are many game developers (especially on Android) who use Java.

Additionally, many of the features that C# offers compared to Java are not much important if the purpose is scripting, as most scripting in games is imperative and (at worst) object-oriented (and many of the advantages C# offers are related to functional programming, which Java 8 supports decently anyway). Just take a look at your average Unity script, even a more complex one like this: there's not much there that can't be done in Java straight away!

The JVM also offers a good amount of other languages - Kotlin, for examples, which has many features like nullable types, pattern matching and operator overloading. There's also Ceylon, which is in many ways a better C# (and compiles directly to JavaScript). Supporting those would not require any more work than adding a JAR dependency. Java also has a larger amount of libraries.

And if performance is the main concern and a runtime like the CLR and JVM is too heavy, those can be done away with and C++ could be used directly via LLVM, so that a JIT can be used, avoiding expensive recompilations. This solution is best kept along with GDScript, so that novices (or people who don't need extra performance) can use that instead (and avoid segfaults). The latest standard of C++ has very clean syntax, so I don't think verbosity should be a problem.

C++ is the solution I would like the best, because it would bring the fastest performance (zero overhead, can't be said for any other language), it would not need any extensive changes (as Godot can already be used from C++, and is written in C++ itself), it would have the more consistent support across platforms and it would make it possible to use Godot for very large projects (such as AAA games - there's a reason most studios use Unreal and not Unity). Additionally, keeping GDScript would let those people who don't need extra performance an easier way to write scripts than Java or C# (both very verbose languages) would be.

tl;dr: I think C++ (or worse, Java 8) makes a better choice than C# for scripting in Godot.

Any opinions?

Edit: I see the "feature proposal" tag (which is correct) but I want to make it clear that I'm not proposing C# support in Godot, I'm merely reporting and commenting on some of the things I've heard around.

[fivemoreminix]

@karroffel that's really cool. I have no experience with writing libraries and APIs (reference to your mention of "bindings") although, I could probably just research into it for a day and do it; I'm proudly a quick learner. I would like to get in touch with you on Discord, if you wouldn't mind? My discord: _hasCat#3941

[karroffel]

@VenHayz I can't add you, you're not allowing others to add you. Karroffel#8409 or join the Godot server

[rattasak]

@neikeq Is your GodotSharp repo the codebase that is being used for the C# support in Godot 3.0? Just asking because I am trying to get a rough idea of what features will be available and will poke around that codebase if so. Thanks!

[nictaylr]

i look godotsharp, is outdated ? new feature ? or is ready to use in develop build?

how can i compile godosarp from soruce for me?

[HummusSamurai]

@nictaylr You'll need to use the 2.2-legacy branch as a develop build.

[indolering]

I think I read enough to figure out if someone else mentioned this.

I personally just don't want to learn yet-another-language that I can't use anywhere else. I'm not planning on doing a lot of 3D programming, just a few things here and there.

Yes, there are plenty of counter-arguments against this but ... it's an open-source project. There is no need to hate on someone contributing a new programming language.

[Warlaan]

Imagine bringing beer to a kids party. Would you say that "there's no need to hate on someone contributing a new drink"? There's a good chance that adding C# is going to harm the development of GDscript. I know that everyone is determined to keep GDscript the primary language for Godot, but it still annoys me when it has been explained several times why adding new features has downsides and people are still asking "what's the harm?".

Also asking for C# instead of GDscript because "you don't want to learn" is a really stupid argument. Of all the languages I know in game development GDscript has the least features and C# has by far the most. If you don't want to learn you should be thankful for GDscript.

I really don't want to warm up this discussion time and again, so please if anyone wants to comment on this thread PLEASE READ IT FROM THE TOP.

[indolering]

Also asking for C# instead of GDscript because "you don't want to learn" is a really stupid argument.

I wouldn't mind learning C# because I might be able to use it somewhere else.

Just lock the thread, it's getting mean.

[akien-mga]

It's true that this thread has served its purpose, let's lock it.