Add Surety (Catamaran Hebrew Fork)

[6775060]

Font Project Git Repo URL: https://github.com/6775060/Catamaran-Tamil.git New Repo: https://github.com/6775060/Surety

Current version: Version 1.1

New available version: Catamaran - Version 3.0

Super short description of the upgrade: The new version includes Adding the required characters to the Hebrew language Includes scoring, careful spacing

Special additions: zero slash, alternate percent sign (set 3) square quotes (set 4) Kerning improvements in Latin Catamaran_Family_Web.zip

property: Creation of all Hebrew letters and coin ligature Score is programmed in Hebrew Strict kerning for Hebrew New bindings in shekel (league), and binding "Alf" + "Learn" (in the league) and adding SmallCapitals to the quotation marks, an alternative to the percent symbol Catamaran_Family_Print.zip Specimen_Catamaran FS.pdf

[6775060]

Why is every action I perform classified as a failure?

[eliheuer]

Font development is software development, and negative feedback (failure notifications) are at the core of the way software development works.

Your technical skill level is low and has a lot of gaps, but that can be improved by reading documentation and getting negative feedback: https://googlefonts.github.io/gf-guide/

Anything difficult like type design and computer literacy requires LOT of failure, if you don't see failure as a learning opportunity I would not spend any time doing something like type design.

[eliheuer]

There are a lot of problems with this source file, almost everything is incompatible as a variable font. Note the red triangles in the corner of each glyph, each red triangle will cause the font building process to fail an must be fixed.

[eliheuer]

Also Catamaran is a Thin(100) to Black(900) variable font, I don't understand what the 400-R, 800-B, and 100-T masters are for. Can I just assume these are not needed and remove them?

[eliheuer]

Points like this are not needed and just add complexity and file size to the sources and compiled font. Note that I can remove them and keep the same shape.

[eliheuer]

There are problems with the path direction causing issues like this:

[eliheuer]

As Pria has mentioned earlier, the drawings do not really match the humanist aesthetics of the Catamaran font. This finalmem-hebr for example does not feel like it belongs with the Latin to me. Now look at the pe-hebr and notice it feels like a different style and has some lumpiness (weight issues) and is a questionable shape. When designing a language extension for an existing OFL font, there needs to be a lot of attention to detail in making the two script harmonize with each other.

Keep in mind that unlike technical issues, this is subjective. Can you make the case for why this design would improve a website it is used on? Why would a designer pick this font over other OFL licensed Hebrew fonts?

[eliheuer]

Also from the perspective of a font host like Google Fonts, the goal in the onboard high-quality fonts that will be an improvement on what is already on the site. Can you tell me why a user would pick Surety font over Heebo, which is a very similar font already on the site?

I will admit the Nun looks a bit strange to me in Heebo, so Surety might be an improvement over it for some users! My Hebrew skills are not great, but to me the Nun in Heebo looks upside-down.

https://fonts.google.com/specimen/Heebo?subset=hebrew&noto.script=Hebr

[6775060]

פיתוח גופנים הוא פיתוח תוכנה, ומשוב שלילי (הודעות על כשל) הם הליבה של הדרך שבה פיתוח תוכנה עובד.

רמת המיומנות הטכנית שלך נמוכה ויש בה הרבה פערים, אך ניתן לשפר זאת על ידי קריאת תיעוד וקבלת משוב שלילי: https://googlefonts.github.io/gf-guide/

כל דבר קשה כמו עיצוב כתב ואוריינות מחשב דורש הרבה כישלון, אם אתה לא רואה כישלון כהזדמנות למידה לא הייתי משקיע זמן במשהו כמו עיצוב כתב.

I invested a lot of time in learning and I could not understand why the actions fail, I will devote time to it again..

[6775060]

יש הרבה בעיות עם קובץ המקור הזה, כמעט הכל לא תואם כגופן משתנה. שימו לב למשולשים האדומים בפינת כל גליף, כל משולש אדום יגרום לכשל בתהליך בניית הגופן ויש לתקן אותו.

I don't understand what you mean that it doesn't work as a variable project, the interpolation works great in the graphic software and interfaces I've tested, I'd appreciate it if you could be specific about what to fix, maybe the type of software I'm building doesn't make the adjustments to your requirements

[eliheuer]

I invested a lot of time in learning and I could not understand why the actions fail, I will devote time to it again..

I did not know you meant specifically the GitHub actions, you are missing the config.yaml file. Here is the documentation for GitHub Actions: https://docs.github.com/en/actions

[eliheuer]

I will try to make a pull request setting things up for you to make everything work, but I can't make any promises, I have other fonts to work on now that are higher priority and have less technical issues.

The documentation says that you need a config.yaml file, if you read and follow the documentation, you will not have build failures.

https://googlefonts.github.io/gf-guide/upstream.html

[6775060]

כמו כן, Catamaran הוא גופן ranking Thin(100) לשחור(900), אני לא מבין למה מיועדים המאסטרים של 400-R, 800-B ו-100-T. האם אני יכול פשוט למצוא אותם?

Regarding the construction of the weights, I created the adjustments for the Catamaran project and I didn't even touch the masters, they were just like that and stayed like that, I also think that they need to be changed, so they can be removed But maybe it's worth determining a more balanced distribution of weights

[6775060]

כפי שציינה פריה קודם לכן, הרישומים לא ממש תואמים את האסתטיקה ההומניסטית של גופן הקטמרן. זה finalmem-hebrלמשל לא מרגיש לי שייך ללטינית. תסתכל על זה pe-hebrושימו לב שזה מרגיש כמו סגנון אחר ויש לו קצת גבשושיות (בעיות משקל) ויש לו צורה מפקחת. כאשר מעצבים הרחבת שפה עבור גופן OFL קיים, צריכה להיות תשומת לב רבה לפרטים בהפיכת שני הסקריפטים להרמוניה זה עם זה.

זכור שבניגוד לבעיות טכניות, זה סובייקטיבי. האם אתה יכול להסביר למה העיצוב הזה ישפר אתר שבו הוא משמש? למה שמעצב יבחר בגופן הזה על פני גופנים אחרים ברישיון OFL בעברית?

There are behaviors in the Hebrew skeleton that are different from the Latin and are part of the culture of the language, the Hebrew letter is not just a geometric shape it has necessary skeletal properties, in terms of my interpretation there is a limitation you cannot perform repetitive elements arbitrarily, for the sake of the matter the letter pe-hebr does not have derived skeletal structures from the letter finalmem-hebr

[6775060]

Surety

Heebo is lovable but very trite, Surety has characteristics that are strong in typographic fashion, and it works in a greased way on the Hebrew skeleton, I shared the Surety font in my community of about 1700 members and there were great responses, to your question if it resembles Heebo at all or not, Surety has Lots of sensitivity and character unlike Heebo which is more classic

[6775060]

כמו כן, Catamaran הוא גופן משתנה Thin(100) לשחור(900), אני לא מבין למה מיועדים המאסטרים של 400-R, 800-B ו-100-T. האם אני יכול פשוט להניח שאין בהם צורך ולהסיר אותם?

I perform it

[eliheuer]

Ok, thanks for the feedback! I will try to make a pull request to your repository soon that will set everything up to build properly. I will use the source files in their current state, so please don't make any changes to the source files this week while I get my pull request ready. Your changes this week might be lost when I make my pull request.

If you do need to make changes to your source files, please let me know in this issue with an explanation of the changes.

[6775060]

Thanks man, I will indeed make the changes you recommended in the structure of the scales, depending on what is required for the font and its nature, and I will not upload them at this stage, just waiting for the release of there in operations (workflows), I am an artist, it is difficult for me to read a lot of text, (without a glass of fine whiskey:) Thanks again !

[6775060]

• I improved all the contours and created a conversion to CFF Cubic lines
• I've sorted problems with outline direction in the character rule
• Another review and improvements in conjunctions in organized work

[6775060]

I just received Font Creator 15 in its beta version, it allows for more productive work. These are some of the improvements Irwin reported:

• Improved shaping engine
• Elements -> supports outlines with both components and contours, so called hybrid outlines
• Improved optimize contour feature
• Improved join (union, intersection, exclusion, and also cut/knife) contours feature, it now even supports cubic curves.
• Fixed remove overlap issue
• Support for the GlyphsApp .glyphs file format
• Improved support for UFO and DesignSpaces
• Numerous other bug fixes
• Several other minor improvements and some speed gains.
• Redesigned Transform panel

[eliheuer]

@6775060 Sounds good, I'm doing the same work as you in my fork, can you link to your new source files so I can see and use your new work? I don't see anything new in your Git Repository.

This is my fork: https://github.com/eliheuer/Surety

You can follow what I am doing in my commits: https://github.com/eliheuer/Surety/commits/main

If you look in the Actions tab you can see my builds passing (this is good and what you want): https://github.com/eliheuer/Surety/actions

And if you click on specific builds, you can download fonts and proofs: https://github.com/eliheuer/Surety/actions/runs/5516784048

And from there you can click on "build" and get a QA report: https://github.com/eliheuer/Surety/actions/runs/5516784048/jobs/10058555306#step:11:15

[eliheuer]

@6775060 If Font Creator has support for the .glyphs format now, could we consider using that for this project?

If you look at my fork, I'm using .glyphs to do the work, and was planning on converting that to designspace & UFO when done, but using .glyphs would be easier.

[6775060]

Surety.zip I think so - I have attached a glyphs format for you

[6775060]

Update if it's okay, I couldn't figure out where to upload it with me, is there an edition published? or in the deleted sources folder (and I can't recover)

[eliheuer]

@6775060 You can add a new sources folder, if you look at my fork I have added one: https://github.com/eliheuer/Surety

If and when I make a pull request back to you, a new sources folder will be added.

[eliheuer]

@6775060 the .glyphs file from the latest .zip has issues when opened with Glyphs 3.2:

[6775060]

Check here on their forum https://forum.high-logic.com/viewtopic.php?p=48886#p48886

[6775060]

He writes that there is some problem they are trying to find solutions for Is it tracking us? Or I'll send you UFO files You can follow the link: https://forum.high-logic.com/viewtopic.php?p=48892#p48892

[eliheuer]

If you want to post updated UFO files here that would be great. As I said before I have a fork here I am working on and I could not not open your .glyphs file. My fork is using the last UFO files you posted, which have a LOT of technical issues and are difficult to work with.

[6775060]

UPO.zip I invite you to examine these and update me with the problems fixed I passed glyph glyph

[6775060]

I saw that you are removing the timil, if there is a possibility that it will remain, that would be wonderful, I treated selectively there, for your consideration

[6775060]

A side question, is it possible to contribute content and knowledge about Hebrew typography to the Google Font knowledge base

[eliheuer]

I saw that you are removing the timil, if there is a possibility that it will remain, that would be wonderful, I treated selectively there, for your consideration

It is a possibility, but the source files are difficult to work with and getting the Hebrew and Latin ready to onboard is the first priority.

A side question, is it possible to contribute content and knowledge about Hebrew typography to the Google Font knowledge base

https://fonts.google.com/knowledge is much more selective and curated than https://fonts.google.com/. It's not impossible, you could try, but it would most likely get rejected if you aren't a known and respected personality in the font industry.

Do you have a blog where you publish content like this? I would start there and build an audience that way.

Most major social media platforms have type design related content, you could start a blog and post on https://typo.social/, Twitter, Instagram, etc.

Here is an issue you could try working on if you want, but you would probably need Glyphs-App and would need to learn how to use to command line and read the docs: https://github.com/googlefonts/glyphsets/issues/115

[6775060]

Today I have a quality newsletter community of about 1700 senior designers. I write content for them, in addition I write in forums that vary valuable content about Hebrew typography.

I thought I would contribute a valuable article in a field in which I have significant experience Anatomy of the writings of a calligraphic Jewish Sefer Torah in the approaches of diverse testimonies

[6775060]

I can't enjoy Glyphs because I use windows I couldn't figure out how to add the GF Glyphsets Is this something that is possible in my font editor, or as part of the UPO system

[davelab6]

@6775060 thanks for your efforts on this. However, this issue tracker is really for tracking the onboarding, not actual font development. Please could you and @eliheuer shift this discussion to your upstream repo, and I'll tag this as "upstream is working on it" and @eliheuer can get back to us on this issue when its ready to remove that tag and move forwards.

The folks like @eliheuer that I commission to onboard projects are rarely getting into upstream project development, and I am concerned @eliheuer is going above and beyond - which is good in small amounts - but here is becoming unsustainable :)

[6775060]

@eliheuer professional and patient! I'm trying to learn this way of working At the same time as independent projects And I'll try to see if I can fit in

[eliheuer]

@6775060 Like Dave said this project is becoming too much work and you are going to need to do more of the work to move it forward. I'll give you everything you need to make progress below.

As you know, I have a fork of your project here: https://github.com/eliheuer/Surety

Please look at the source file I have set up and consider using it as a starting point, I have saved it in the UFO/designspace format so you can use it here: https://github.com/eliheuer/Surety/blob/main/sources/Surety.designspace

I think it would be helpful for you to look at what a properly set up Hebrew project looks like, so I have saved the source files for the typeface Rubik here for you to look at and learn from: https://github.com/eliheuer/Surety/blob/main/sources/Rubik.designspace

The best way for you to move forward is to review the Rubik source files, read the documentation for Google Fonts, and read the documentation for GitHub.

Thanks for your patience and please try to ask development questions in the issues section of your repository: https://github.com/6775060/Surety/issues

[6775060]

Surety.zip Hi, Erwin from Font Creator has released an upgraded version following the fix for the problem with Glyphs. Attaching a recent glyphs file, does it solve the problem that was there?

[6775060]

What is the status of the project? How can we promote?