I'm not sure if "Tsunami" is a good name. But I need your opinion.

[inductor]

Hello. I am a Japanese engineer.

I am not claiming this is bad, you must change the name, or anything like that. I opened this issue to ask opinions to y'all.

I am not SUPER familiar with the recent "wording" issues around protests so I apologize in advance but I wonder if you ever discussed this is a good naming.

Japan and some countries have had a huge earth quake, which brought a huge tsunami afterwards. The impact those gave still remains at the disaster area. Even though I am not one of the victim, I felt like I have to ask this, but I don't want to make any drama so if you want to close this issue you can, but at least I would like some opinions from the OSS team.

Thanks,

日本人の方向けに追記(adding some follow-up for Japanese speakers): こちらのツイートでも表明していますが、Issueを立てた目的は「関わる皆さんの意見」を問うものであり、私が「日本人にとってこれは不謹慎に聞こえる」と言うために立てたIssueではありません。

追記2: 初動を完全に間違えてしまいました。皆様申し訳ありません。https://github.com/google/tsunami-security-scanner/issues/5#issuecomment-649173811

[keiji]

Hi, I am a Japanese Software Developer.

In my opinion, I do not think Tsunami is unsuitable name.

Tsunami is just natural phenomenon. As you know "Dagger" are killing many people. But many Android app developers use that :)

[nakatsuka-y]

I side with @keiji. Although I do agree that Tsunamis have brought devastating disasters and many people may be traumatized with the word, Tsunamis are a natural phenomenon, not caused by human.

I speculate the term "Tsunami" was brought up because of the wave of attacks. Maybe the term "Seawall" or "Breakwater" (防波堤) might also be a good candidate if the team is considering to change the project name :)

[madai0517]

@keiji "Black" is a natural color, and "Master" is a type of degree. But "allow list" / "deny list" is preferable, and Github is trying to change it from "master" to" main", right? I think it's the same thing in that some people feel undesirable, but what do you think?

[lestrrat]

I'm lacking context: was there a specific complaint? If so, perhaps that should be brought up.

In terms of pure terminology, Tsunami, Hurricane, Tornado, Earthquake... all of these sound fine to me. They are dangerous, they are sometimes cause of great grief, but they are natural phenomena and I don't think there exists an underlying harmful intention. As a counter example, I think one could argue that a term like Kalashnikova (aka AK-47) represents tool made to specifically kill people and therefore should be avoided to be used in a project name. In this sense I think Tsunami seems OK to me.

[shirou]

Hi. I am also a Japanese engineer.

I know many people in Japan and other countries are affected by earthquakes and tsunamis, but, I feel no negative from the word "Tsunami" itself, just feel warning. This tool attacks a target like a "Tsunami", I agree to why you choose this name.

So in my opinion, there are no need to change the name.

[sakurai-youhei]

IMHO: Keep the name (Never change it away) but watch tsunami videos in YouTube and please re-define the word of tsunami by the product.

[qsona]

In fact, there is a song which has same name and is very famous in Japan. It was released in 2000. I think it indicates that whether some name is acceptable or not is related to historical context. The really big tsunami disaster was occurred in 2011 and 10 years have passed after that. Of course I still have pain and have slight feelings not want to recall it, but personally I don't think you need to change the name. Changing name is certainly an extra work and I think we shouldn't force it unless there is a huge requirement.

But I also think it's safer if this tool will become very famous... (e.g. 20k stars)

[moriken1113]

"Tsunami" definitely reminds me of the 3.11 disaster in Japan and makes me uneasy. IMO, the number of Japanese those feel uncomfortable due to this reason is not very small. I hope the name to be changed.

[keiji]

Hi @madai0517,

No, I think black/white and master/slave discussion is about discrimination. I think it doesn't related this discussion.

[igrep]

As a Japanese software developer, I felt it was nonsense to rename at a first glance. But I found I'd feel scared if it were such as "earthquake" or "atomic bomb" etc. every time I heard the name (I wonder whether there are more suitable words reminding people of such fear). So I guess there are a number of people who feel in that way. "Tsunami" would give us a wrong impression with this software.

[kazykp]

To be honest, Tsunami sounds SUUUUPER negative to me, and it's OK if you want to use some negative name. But if you were thinking Tsunami sounds like something cool, I would disagree.

[ymotongpoo]

I'm leaning against the side to change the product name because of the following reasons:

• The image of the word "tsunami" reminds the massive wave attack and the disaster as a result of it, and I'm not sure if it describes the characteristics of the product.
• Though "Tsunami" itself is the natural phenomena, as it's defined, it comes with a disastrous damage, which is the difference from "tidal wave" as terminology in meteorology, and the word itself has negative message to some people, at least me.
• As @qsona mentioned, it used to be more neutral word and was used as the title of a famous song, but the song was refrained from playing on TV and radio for a while after 2011 Tohoku earthquake because of the title, which was the result of the image the disaster had.

Given above, I think this is a good opportunity to think about the product name with reviewing the Code of Conduct and the product marketing message. Though the latter one is not shared in this repository.

If the authors have the background on naming the product, then it's great to have it publicly, and if not, I feel it's safer to have more descriptive name for the product.

[ryo-a]

Hi, I'm a Tokyo-based developer. I'm not a stakeholder of this project, but I have a question.

Why is this project using a "destructive" name?

When I first heard "Tsunami", I thought it might be a kind of attacking tool. Tsunami (real tsunami) destructs everything - buildings, cars, ships and human lives. I understand that some security scanning tools behave like attackers to some extent but they don't contemplate to destruct system unrecoverably. Especially, this tool (tsunami-security-scanner) is to "scan non-intrusively". This is the opposite of real tsunami.

In my humble opinion, negative image of the word aside, it looks weird.

[zacky1972]

"Tsunami" means an attacking tool rather than a defencing tool. I propose it should be named after a breakwater.

[hykw]

I also thought "Tsunami" is a sort of mass destruction tool. Setting aside the disaster the word might imply, I hope products have the name which avoids such misunderstandings.

[SiriusArc7]

Random dude here.

I understand the feelings of Japanese devs thinking Tsunami might not be an appropriate name(my friend lost his home on 3.11 but luckily survived), but I also think they might be a bit too sensitive.

Let's say if this product was named after some other natural disasters involving some deaths, like Hurricanes, Tornadoes, Earthquakes, Volcanic Eruptions, Avalanches, Landslides, Meteor strikes or something like that. If google team still thinks it's not that big problem, then yeah, I'd say go for it. If they don't, they should look for better names.

EDIT: I've just found that there already is an web server framework called cyclone.io on python. We all should think carefully that bringing out sentimental logic could affect these existing products.

日本語版: 通りすがりです。

日本人の方々の「不適切じゃないか」という反応も理解はできるのですが（友人が家を失くしたりしたので）、若干過剰反応じゃないかなあと思わないでもないです。

例えばこのプロジェクトが津波じゃなくて別の人死が出る自然災害の名前から付けられたとして、それでもGoogleが問題ないと判断してるならそれで良いんじゃないかなと思います。例えば台風とか竜巻とか噴火とか火砕流とか雪崩とか地滑りとかメテオストライク的な。彼らがそれはちょっと…と思うのなら変えたほうが良いんじゃないかなって程度です。

追記: 先程cyclone.ioというpythonのwebサーバフレームワークがあることを知りました。これも津波と同様に毎年人死がある自然災害ですので、「人が死んだのに」とか「悲しくなる」的な論理はこういった既存のサービスにも持ち出されうるものですから、慎重に考えたいですね。

[inductor]

Original Issue author here. I appreciate a lot for your comments and let me add something to my original opinion.

This thread is already getting to be dramatic with lots of Japanese comments, so let's please add any more comments if you are...

1. involved with this project.
2. one of the earthquake victims with tsunami; not just for 311, there were some other big earthquakes such as Sumatra earthquake
3. neither of 1 or 2 but still want to add something to this as non-Japanese point of view.
4. with a better name suggestion

Hope you understand.

Issueを作ったものです。 皆様の多数のご意見本当にありがとうございます。意見がかなり増えてしまったので一旦ここで歯止めをしておきたいです。

ここから先は、以下のいずれかに該当する方のコメントをお願いいたします。

1. 本OSSプロジェクトのステークホルダー
2. 津波を伴う大規模地震の被災者(311に限らず、世界中でいろいろな震災があったかと思います)
3. どちらにも該当しないが、日本人ではない立場、視点から意見をいただける方
4. より良い名前の提案がある方

ご理解の程よろしくおねがいします。

[zacky1972]

I have a question for authors of this OSS. What kind of wishes and/or expectations did you give this name?

[peaceiris]

To do so, information security teams need to have the ability to implement and roll out detectors for novel security issues at scale in a very short amount of time. Furthermore, it is important that the detection quality is consistently very high.

https://github.com/google/tsunami-security-scanner/blob/e7f68ddc072de246892dd7531e801732543f18ea/docs/index.md

How about fast-security-scanner or quick-security-scanner as an alternative?

The problem is that: If this project continues to use this name, I cannot recommend this tool to my friends live in the Tohoku area.

この名前のままだと「誰にでも気持ちよく紹介できるような名前ではない」という点が問題として残ると思います。

[slumbers99]

In my opinion, "Tsunami" is popular word like "TSUNAMI" that Japanese famous song. But also "Tsunami" is a strong word, especially after 3.11 in Japan. Some people feel scary, Some people feel sadness.

Anyway, my suggestion is "How about 'Shiosai not Tsunami". "Shiosai" is meant to be emotional. "Shiosai" is the sound of being a full tide. "Shiosai" is not wave as strong as tsunami.

if this tool has meaning of wave. Please consider.

[kanitabe]

@keiji

Tsunami is just natural phenomenon. As you know "Dagger" are killing many people. But many Android app developers use that :)

If you say it's a natural phenomenon and it's not a problem, then even if you named it 9.11, it's just Doesn't that mean it's not a problem because of the date? If Google were to rename "Android OS" to "Tsunami OS" or "World Trade Center OS"... Imagine renaming it. Are you sure it's not in bad taste because it's just a natural phenomenon or the name of a building?

===

自然現象だから問題ないというのであれば、仮に9.11という名前をつけたとしても、ただの日付だから問題ないという事になりませんか？ もしGoogleがAndroid OSの名前をTsunami OSやWorld Trade Center OSに改名するとしたら、ただの自然現象やビルの名前だから悪趣味ではないと本当に言えるのでしょうか

[keiji]

@kanitabe https://github.com/google/tsunami-security-scanner/issues/5#issuecomment-647908227

[kanitabe]

By the way, maybe it's because I lost my house and family in the tsunami. I would feel bad if a global company like Amazon or Google, not only for this project, but also for the widespread activities of a global company like Amazon or Google, named their software or service after a tsunami that has nothing to do with the tsunami.

If Google were a private developer with no influence over Japan in this corner of the world, the name of the software I think it's rather nonsensical to force people to change their names to

As the software is also used by the Japanese, I think it is important to consider whether the name of the project, which is not directly related to the tsunami, really needs to be tsunami.

===

ちなみに私が家や家族を津波で失っているからかもしれませんが、 このプロジェクトに限らず、もしAmazonやGoogleのようなグローバルな企業が、津波と関係のないソフトウェアやサービス名に津波の名前をつけて、広域な活動をしていたら嫌な気持ちになります。

Googleが世界の片隅の日本に対して何の影響力もない個人開発者だったらソフトウェア名の改名を迫ることはむしろナンセンスだと思いますが

日本人も使うソフトウェアである以上、津波に直接関係しないプロジェクトの名前が、本当に津波である必要性があるのかは考えるべきだと思います

[yuzujoe]

Hi, I'm a Japanese developer. I too think this product needs to be renamed.

If the concept of the product is to be a tool to scan for vulnerabilities, Tsunami reminded me of something like a large-scale software attack, since I'm on the receiving end of a disaster.

I thought a name that reminded me of a breakwater, like @zacky1972, would be good as another name.

Thanks.

[inductor]

@yuzujoe Please refrain from posting any other comments if you just want to agree with something that other people already posted... See also https://github.com/google/tsunami-security-scanner/issues/5#issuecomment-647908227

Thanks for your understanding.

Let's hope @magl0 or someone else that is involved with this project writes something soon! 🙏

[VivekNeel]

Fantastic #letsDoThis also lets get rid of Dagger as well xD

[geckour]

I have no idea about "Tsunami" is a good or bad name, but I'm simply interested in why this project named "Tsunami".

[ghost]

3\. どちらにも該当しないが、日本人ではない立場、視点から意見をいただける方

This implies that Japanese people do not comment. This is discrimination based on nationality. It is against the spirit of FLOSS.

Issues opened by discriminators should be closed. You should expel the discriminators.

[falsandtru]

I don't disagree with using Tsunami as a product name, but I disagree with using Tsunami for commercial purposes. In general, people wouldn't accept someone to do unrelated business using people's pain. Many Japanese people would feel uncomfortable with the use of Tsunami for commercial purposes. If Tsunami is used for non-commercial and public benefit products or projects, it will be widely accepted.

Another, do you want to use Pandemic for the name of this product? Using Tsunami for the name of this product is the same as it. Neither Pandemic nor Tsunami is appropriate for the name of this unrelated product.

[zacky1972]

@blacklistisnotracist I can understand your words because I, and almost Japanese, were also "innocence" for the word "Tsunami", before 3.11. There are some evidences, i.e. a famous Japanese song "Tsunami", singed by Southern All Stars, and a famous Japanese animation movie "Ponyo on the cliff", which describes a very fantastic story before and after "Tsunami". Of course, after 3.11, we never create such a song and movie.

A "Tsunami" is so destructive that its victims may flash back disgusting and clear images against their minds. Imagine your customer that you recommend to introduce this OSS to is such a victim of Tsunami. This causes the worst user experiences.

[zacky1972]

A "Tsunami" is so destructive that its victims may flash back disgusting and clear images against their minds. Imagine your customer that you recommend to introduce this OSS to is such a victim of Tsunami. This causes the worst user experiences.

We, Japanese software engineers, are faced with such kind of issues, because there are too many victims of Tsunami in Japan!

[zacky1972]

@blacklistisnotracist Even though so, I believe we can continue to try to select suitable words in order to make them more harmless. As you said, it may cause infinite efforts to change the words. Even though so, I don't think such efforts become useless. I believe "the history of justice" is made from such efforts.

[ndac-todoroki]

I'm with @blacklistisnotracist . Banning words depending on its sphere of influence is somewhat a map of denial of minority. I think we should seek true fairness rather than walking that way. The use of the word Tsunami should be judged solely on whether it represents this OSS in a straightf orward, dynamic, and impressive enough way.

Speaking of that, I don't think the name represents the OSS much. Tsunamis are fast, but they don't scale, nor are made of components.

[zacky1972]

I've just noticed why I've been making an effort and a commitment to it, by discussion with @blacklistisnotracist . This is a kind of marketing issues. I believe Google has been one of the most reliable and dream companies for almost Japanese. I worry about loss of such a reliance or "brand" from Japanese.

[zacky1972]

@blacklistisnotracist

There are some evidences, i.e. a famous Japanese song "Tsunami", singed by Southern All Stars, and a famous Japanese animation movie "Ponyo on the cliff", which describes a very fantastic story before and after "Tsunami". Of course, after 3.11, we never create such a song and movie.

Were you trying to say that these were the evidence of the word "tsunami" being a sensitive word for Japanese people?

No. These are the evidence that almost Japanese were innocent to the word "Tsunami".

[intercept6]

https://github.com/google/tsunami-security-scanner/issues/5#issuecomment-647908227 @inductor This comment limits raising opinions by nationality. I don't think we should limit the increase in opinion. I don't think you are a discriminator, if so please drop this comment?

[zacky1972]

@blacklistisnotracist

Of course, all Japanese know Tsunami is a kind of disasters and that Tsunami causes tragedies historically. However, it was only knowledge for almost Japanese. I meant this by the word 'innocent'.

[zacky1972]

@intercept6 Did you mean the comment https://github.com/google/tsunami-security-scanner/issues/5#issuecomment-647908227 forces opinions that follows it to be limited only by nationality?

[intercept6]

@zacky1972 Yes, I think it limits the opinions of Japanese who are not victims.

[zacky1972]

@intercept6 I don't think so because it also describes the following:

3. neither of 1 or 2 but still want to add something to this as non-Japanese point of view.
4. with a better name suggestion

I don't interpret "not only non-Japanese point of view" as forcing this discussion to limit a person that gives opinions to only non-Japanese, because it allows answer to somebody's question and/or opinion in another aspect, even if Japanese say something.

If you assert to clarify it, I agree it.

[zacky1972]

@blacklistisnotracist

so you're saying Japanese people didn't feel anything before the tsunami in 2011 (and the songs and movies are the evidence of this claim) but after that the word became sensitive and the usage of tsunami has been problematic since then?

Yes, I said so.

I believe your values are changed after coronavirus. Tsunami makes values of Japanese change so.

[intercept6]

@zacky1972 I think that I am trying to limit my opinion by nationality. Of course, this may be my misunderstanding.

If so, I would like to make it clear that I do not limit my opinion.

[zacky1972]

@intercept6

I see.

[zacky1972]

@blacklistisnotracist No, because I know it is not named from current coronavirus disaster though Corona beer and coronavirus may have same origin of name, the corona of the sun, and though if I am one of victims, Corona beer sounds offensive to me.

However, Tsunami of OSS is different. It is named, not before 3.11, which is known as one of the worst disasters of the world.

[methane]

Ok. Corona beer sounds offensive to you?

Naming new product and changing the name of long lived product is a different issue. Changing long-used name has very high cost, because many people know and love "Corona Beer" already. Changing the name will lose some existing fans. But if you are naming new drink, why do you name it "Corona"? It will lost many potential new fans.

Additionally, "Tsunami" is word borrowed from Japanese. And many Japanese still have strong association between "Tsunami" and the 3.11 disaster. So listening on how Japanese people feels when hear the word "Tsunami" is a good consideration.

Tsunamis have caused disasters for centuries but there's a popular song named "Tsunami"? Interesting.

The popular song "TSUNAMI" by "Southern All Stars" (2000) was named before the 3.11 disaster (2011). And they stop singing "TSUNAMI" since 3.11 for consideration, although many fans waiting it. This is one example how TSUNAMI and 3.11 are special in Japanese.

[inductor]

Why don’t we just wait for the googles statement now

[kyoya0819]

Well, Arashi seems to mean "storm", and I know a lot of people died of storms. It's the same.

I think it is inappropriate to tell things just by the person who passed away. I'm sorry if it's unnatural because of machine translation.

私は、亡くなった人だけで判別をするのは不適切だと思います。 一部機械翻訳を用いているため不自然な英語だったら申し訳ございません。

[inductor]

Please stop any more comments until google posts here

[habuka036]

OK, Let's wait for the google statement.

But I would like to only say this. "Tsunami" are natural phenomenon, Japanese family name, first name or geographical name.

maybe I think many people have a negative image of a Tsunami, however, I wonder the person with this name doesn't would like people have a negative image for themselves name.

So, I just can only say that Tsunami is meaning not always negative in Japanese.

[inductor]

@habuka036

I really appreciate that you'll respectfully wait for them. However, I would not like to make any exception and there should not be no "but" after my suggestion.

I really hope you will delete your comment. I would have asked the same thing no matter what your opinion is. I apologize.

I will delete this comment when you kindly follow my offer.