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googlefonts / roboto-2

The Roboto family of fonts
Apache License 2.0
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Removed kerning between uppercase L and singlequote #271

Closed phcannesson closed 4 years ago

phcannesson commented 7 years ago

This modification removes the negative kerning between uppercase L and singlequote.

This issue has been described and discussed in issue #195.

As a native French speaker, it feels better without the negative kerning. It surprises me that I'm apparently the only one who was really annoyed by this.

Before

capture d ecran 2017-11-08 a 15 19 55

After

capture d ecran 2017-11-08 a 15 19 08
davelab6 commented 6 years ago

I think this sounds like a good idea. I'll ask the upstream designers to integrate this :)

phcannesson commented 6 years ago

Any update on this @davelab6 ? This pull-request is slowly getting old :)

rocboronat commented 5 years ago

As a Catalan, it also looks wrong for me. I prefer the proposed version.

phcannesson commented 5 years ago

Any update on this ?

davelab6 commented 4 years ago

@dberlow I'd like to address this after the upcoming v3 is fully landed, in the new v3 UFO sources, probably in May.

Screen Shot 2020-04-15 at 8 58 13 PM
davelab6 commented 4 years ago

@phcannesson thanks again for your hard work creating this pull request, so man years ago. Since this project is moving to a completely new set of sources, and this issue is tracked in #195, I'm going to close this PR, and want to address this in a future release based on the new sources.

phcannessondkt commented 4 years ago

@davelab6 Thanks for the update. Will the sources remain public ? I'd like to follow up on this subject ;)

dberlow commented 4 years ago

Thanks phcannessondkt for pointing this out. I did follow it on Typedrawers and am glad to be reminded.

We'd like to address French spacing of contractions too, to work for French readers. The issues are that it does not seem to be just one pair that separates proper English and French spacing of contractions. Do you agree?

This shows the kerning turned off in the second line of each sample.

Screen Shot 2020-04-22 at 12 25 49 PM

We know that is not all that needs to be done, but it's a way of starting from the raw spacing.

A second issue is proper English and French spacing of contractions over the much broader range of styles in Roboto Flex, which is now approaching completion of the glyphs required for French composition, but is not quite ready to experiment with.

Screen Shot 2020-04-22 at 12 33 07 PM

We plan on doing more of this in Roboto Flex, but if Google wants you or us to change the kerning pairs of Roboto VF for French language, or others, we're glad to participate.

phcannessondkt commented 4 years ago

On your examples second lines, it looks like aujourd'hui has also been modified and some kerning reduced.

As far as I know, the kernings have always been OK for all letters except uppercase L.

davelab6 commented 4 years ago

The 2nd lines are without kerning, I think

phcannessondkt commented 2 years ago

Is the fix planned to be released any time soon ?

dberlow commented 2 years ago

Santiago, do you know the input required to make a language-specific gpos exception in flex, for the L’ pair to, as I understand it, have a zero kern pair when French is composed?

…and, who can we query for other uses of contractions like this? I seem to recall somebody raising Portuguese or some other language?

rocboronat commented 2 years ago

Catalan, Catalan. In Catalan it's also strange to have the negative kerning. It should appear like "L`home", let's say.

phcannesson commented 1 year ago

@dberlow I wonder what is the status of this ? As the kerning issue is still present on my Pixel 6A, even if it was pointed out here 6 years ago.

phcannesson commented 7 months ago

@dberlow Sorry to ping you again, but the issue's still here. It's been almost 7 years !

dberlow commented 7 months ago

We read all the conversation threads and here are a few clarifications: —We didn’t do Roboto, this comes from before us, 2016 https://github.com/googlefonts/roboto/issues/195

— When presented and resolved by us, the issue/PR was closed by Dave Crossland on April 2020 https://github.com/googlefonts/roboto/pull/271#issuecomment-614353812

—Marc Foley resolved this on Aug 2020 https://github.com/googlefonts/roboto-classic/commit/30a37f2830d51719011f512b731c6853e1dfb6fb and says it’s in production.

This is, and has not been, a @dberlow issue since a week after Google requested it be included to RobotoFlex in 2020.

Cheers!

m4rc1e commented 7 months ago

We're currently updating Roboto to a variable font (may be a few more weeks). It will include this fix as David Berlow pointed out.