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googlefonts / roboto-flex

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Uppercase Eszett is ugly #122

Open fitojb opened 3 years ago

fitojb commented 3 years ago

Its tail looks completely out of place in an upright, grotesque sans face.

thlinard commented 3 years ago

https://typography.guru/journal/capital-sharp-s-designs/

dberlow commented 3 years ago

In what class of design, is the tail of the uppercase long S not to be ignored, and the bottom of the F not to be used instead?

thlinard commented 3 years ago

I think the general idea is that since ß is an ſ + s ligature (or ſ + z) and the ſ visually looks like an f, ẞ is constructed somewhat as an F + s, F + z , ſ + S or ſ + Z. But S + *, never (or it would be a very unexpected eccentricity in a typeface like Roboto).

fitojb commented 2 years ago

Related to #208

dberlow commented 2 years ago

"ſ + S or ſ + Z"

An uppercase glyph should be constructed from a lowercase and uppercase glyph? Really?

On Tue, Feb 22, 2022 at 11:30 AM Adolfo Jayme-Barrientos < @.***> wrote:

Related to #208 https://github.com/TypeNetwork/Roboto-Flex/issues/208

— Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub https://github.com/TypeNetwork/Roboto-Flex/issues/122#issuecomment-1047981842, or unsubscribe https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AAO5VDVKFNKLKP7MVOOMEHTU4O23VANCNFSM4VQ26DNA . You are receiving this because you commented.Message ID: @.***>

thlinard commented 2 years ago

"ſ + S or ſ + Z" An uppercase glyph should be constructed from a lowercase and uppercase glyph? Really?

Well, this is the construction that we observe on certain examples of https://typography.guru/journal/capital-sharp-s-designs/, and the result is not at all unpleasant. Although that's not necessarily what I would recommend for Roboto.

EbenSorkin commented 7 months ago

I flat-topped one would be easier to manage in Flex axis space too.

3

[image: image.png]

On Sun, Mar 24, 2024 at 11:00 PM JapanYoshi @.***> wrote:

Screenshot_20240325_115233.png (view on web) https://github.com/googlefonts/roboto-flex/assets/8707990/cea052d8-e56e-424c-9ddb-2d68d1203de2

Roboto Flex has been name-dropped in http://cinga.ch/eszett/ as a particularly bad example of a capital eszett.

You guys already have a perfect ẞ in the non-variable Roboto font (or at least it seems like it on my Android phone). The design part is done already.

— Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub https://github.com/googlefonts/roboto-flex/issues/122#issuecomment-2017124949, or unsubscribe https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AAQUQXPRE4AREWH6555RYV3YZ6HN7AVCNFSM4VQ26DNKU5DIOJSWCZC7NNSXTN2JONZXKZKDN5WW2ZLOOQ5TEMBRG4YTENBZGQ4Q . You are receiving this because you are subscribed to this thread.Message ID: @.***>

thlinard commented 7 months ago

You guys already have a perfect ẞ in the non-variable Roboto font (or at least it seems like it on my Android phone). The design part is done already.

Roboto version 2.137, the latest public version, which is available at https://fonts.google.com/specimen/Roboto, does not have ẞ. But Roboto Slab https://fonts.google.com/specimen/Roboto+Slab has one, which would indeed be a good solution for Roboto Flex.

thlinard commented 7 months ago

That’s weird. My phone’s copy of Roboto has ẞ, and it doesn’t seem to be a fallback.

Oh that's right. There are two versions of Roboto, with different character sets. The version for Android (version 2.138, here: https://github.com/googlefonts/roboto) has a ẞ, but not the version for Google Fonts (version 2.137 https://github.com/googlefonts/roboto-classic and version 3.09 in the "web" flavor).

Roboto Slab’s ẞ is too stylized for a neutral Grotesk like regular Roboto, IMO.

Of course not with serifs, but, mutatis mutandis, a sans serif version, like the one of IBM Plex of which you gave an example.

EDIT: information corrected on v3.09.

thlinard commented 7 months ago

Sorry, I must have been distracted, but Roboto Classic version 3.09 in preparation, except the "web" variant, does have a ẞ:

Roboto