Timecode not shown onscreen when fed via audio in from a ZOOM F6

[HanSooloo]

Using the latest Labs firmware (1.42.70) on my Hero 10 with a Pro 3.5mm Mic Adapter. ZOOM F6’s timecode output is connected to the mic adapter.

According to the LTC help page, I should see the timecode on the GoPro screen. However, I don’t see anything.

If I take the GoPro MP4 file and open it in Tentacle Sync Studio, that app can recognize the timecode embedded in the audio track without any problems. It’s just that the Hero 10 doesn’t recognize it.

[dnewman-gpsw]

Please share a capture.

[HanSooloo]

https://drive.google.com/file/d/11UYAeY028gpWMH1dQLmqEQ-w-9b5X4l_/view?usp=sharing

Apologies for the blurry shot, but couldn't get GoPro to focus on the timecode displayed on the F6 properly.

[dnewman-gpsw]

That helps a lot. The timecode is only being extracted from the left channel (this, I guess, is a camera bug), the F6 is placing timecode only on the right channel. So if you can swap the channels it will work (either the F6 menu, or hacking a cable.)

[HanSooloo]

Thanks for the quick update. The F6 provides no options to set the timecode channel in their menu. I will open an issue with them.

Is there a way for the GoPro to do something here? Maybe an option to select the audio channel? I am not to keen on hacking a cable for this purpose.

[dnewman-gpsw]

It is now listed of the Labs backlog to scan both channel for LTC. No idea when that can be done. Faster to change the cable, even a mono 3.5mm cable will likely work.

[HanSooloo]

I was able to use this cable to workaround the issue: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08ZRYR6M3

Connected it to the GoPro and connected the Line Out from Zoom F6 into the White jack on the splitter.

EDIT: I can get apps to see the Zoom F6's timecode in the video file that the GoPro creates but the GoPro STILL does NOT show the timecode on the screen.

I still think there is another inherent issue in the GoPro firmware.

[Dandma]

I too am not able to get timecode to display on the gopro when syncing from the Tentacle Timebar or directly plugged in from the tentacle via stereo jack and the media mod or audio USB adapter. Audio timecode does not seem to be read by the gopro, as it does not change its time when plugged in, only when shown the QR code to sync from the timebar app.

[dnewman-gpsw]

Tentacle Timebar will not cause the display to show timecode, so that part is working correctly. However I've not heard of a Sync Unit directly wired not working. When you add timecode audio via Media Mod, you should see the level meter with at least 7-8 bars, and the timecode will display in yellow first, then in green for about 5 seconds, then not display again until removed. All my cameras work (lots), although I only have the one Sync unit and one Media Mod for testing.
If you record a clip, you should see an excellent signal level in your editor . If you get good levels in both on camera and in the editor, please send me a short MP4 (or LRV is fine.)

[Dandma]

Thanks, here is a download to one file with the media mods and one with the audio adapter. both getting good left side signal.

download of the mp4, lrv, and THM files from those two clips https://we.tl/t-wIljJxuVYr

[dnewman-gpsw]

Yes, the audio seems good, and timecode is extracted by the desktop tools. Which camera model and Labs FW version are you using?

[Dandma]

Hero 10 Labs Version 1.46.70

[dnewman-gpsw]

Yes, of course, I should have looking at the metadata in your sample clips. I now have, and I see obviously nothing wrong. This is a tad baffling, as the same firmware, same camera, and same device work perfectly here. I will need to think more on how to debug this.

[Dandma]

Is there a way to reflash that firmware, or roll back? They are all flashed off the same download, so maybe an issue with that? Or my default QR Control app setting that I showed all of them after covering to labs?

-------- Original message -------- From: David Newman @.> Date: 9/21/22 6:25 PM (GMT-05:00) To: gopro/labs @.> Cc: Dandma @.>, Manual @.> Subject: Re: [gopro/labs] Timecode not shown onscreen when fed via audio in from a ZOOM F6 (Issue #61)

Yes, of course, I should have looking at the metadata in your sample clips. I now have, and I see obviously nothing wrong. This is a tad baffling, as the same firmware, same camera, and same device work perfectly here. I will need to think more on how to debug this.

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[dnewman-gpsw]

All downloads are signed, they is no way to have a bad install. Reinstalls are not necessary. Non-Labs version are available on GoPro.com

[Dandma]

I suppose tomorrow I'll try going back to regular gopro firmware, then back to labs and see if that helps.

---

From: David Newman @.> Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2022 10:50 PM To: gopro/labs @.> Cc: Dandma @.>; Manual @.> Subject: Re: [gopro/labs] Timecode not shown onscreen when fed via audio in from a ZOOM F6 (Issue #61)

All downloads are signed, they is no way to have a bad install. Reinstalls are not necessary. No Labs version are available on GoPro.com

— Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHubhttps://github.com/gopro/labs/issues/61#issuecomment-1254449714, or unsubscribehttps://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/A3GOMXYNRPASSWTZ65QRLXTV7PCOBANCNFSM5X5PZYXA. You are receiving this because you are subscribed to this thread.Message ID: @.***>

[Dandma]

Made some progress! I found that switching the tentacle to output 23.976 timecode finally brings up the displayed timecode on the gopro. I can then switch it back to 29.976 and it then works on that frame rate. I also put it down to a basic 1080p setting. Not sure if that helped or not.

This is so far only working with the media mod, not the audio adapter. Have you ever gotten the audio adapter to work with it, or do I need to go buy some more media mods to have this work?

[Dandma]

Workaround found! Setting the gopros and tentacle to 23.976/24fps. Jam syncing on tentacle properly displays the timecode with both the media mod and audio adapter.

Then changing the gopro and Tentacle back to my desired 29.976 frame rate and re-sync enables the timecode to display and sync as expected.

Seems to be an bug with non-24fps framer rates we are dealing with.

[Dandma]

Using my audio adapters, getting it to work was not repeatable with my 4 camera test. Still works with the media mod, but no longer able with the audio adapter. Going to have to just use the tentacle timebar to get approximate timecode rather than jam synced for my shoot Saturday it seems.

[dnewman-gpsw]

I was able to reproduce this error here, only at 29.97. Most testing was done at either 23.98, 24 or 25 fps. I hope to look it this lead in the next few days.,

[dnewman-gpsw]

It will be addressed in the next labs release, as I have it working better at 29.97 now.

[HanSooloo]

Thanks for the updates @dnewman-gpsw ... do you know when the next labs release will be?

[fitzpb]

Just wanted to thank everyone here for putting in the work to get this issue fixed. I've been using Timebar with mixed results. Can anyone confirm that the Atomos UltraSync ONE also allows for jam sync capability via LTC on the Hero 9 with media mod? I am considering going with the Atomos TC (or possibly Deity) solution because it seems to offer wireless capabilities that Tentacle does not offer.

[HanSooloo]

Is there any way to re-open this ticket? I have now acquired enough cabling to swap the audio that the ZOOM F6 generates from Right channel to Left channel. However, with the mic adapter, I cannot get the timecode to show up with any of the settings.

I also took my original file, swapped the audio channels and fed the new file to the GoPro from my MacBook ... and no LTC info is shown on the GoPro. I actually now have 2 GoPro 10's, with the same adapter, and the issue repeatable on both.

[fitzpb]

Not sure about the GP10. I bought a GP11 and immediately updated the firmware to GoPro labs. I can jam sync directly from the F6 into the GP11 via media mod even with the LTC being pumped through right channel. Are you using the most up to date GoPro Labs firmware? Perhaps it's a GP11 vs GP10 thing. My GP9 was super buggy with TC, but the GP11 has been absolutely perfect with no issues whatsoever.

[dnewman-gpsw]

There are bugs fixed for LTC in HERO11. There will be a HERO10 update likely in the next few months.

[HanSooloo]

Not sure about the GP10. I bought a GP11 and immediately updated the firmware to GoPro labs. I can jam sync directly from the F6 into the GP11 via media mod even with the LTC being pumped through right channel. Are you using the most up to date GoPro Labs firmware? Perhaps it's a GP11 vs GP10 thing. My GP9 was super buggy with TC, but the GP11 has been absolutely perfect with no issues whatsoever.

Thanks for the update @fitzpb ... what frame rate are you using in your Timecode settings on the ZOOM F6?

Did you make any changes to make it work, or pretty much defaults?

[fitzpb]

Using standard 29.97 in the F6 and 4K/30p (which is 29.97) on the GP11. All default settings. I use the same settings in my Tentacle Sync ap too.

[dnewman-gpsw]

29.97 was the trouble on HERO10. All other frame rates should work well. Patch is needed for 29.97 on H10, already out for H11.

[HanSooloo]

@dnewman-gpsw thanks for the update. So, just like @Dandma, I could get the Hero 10 to show the timecode on the screen with a Media Mod when the frame rate was set to 23.976. At that time, I could also switch the frame rate to 29.97 and keep it going.

However, with the official Mic Adapter, no matter what frame rate I choose, Hero 10 DOES NOT show the time code.

Can you please confirm that there are 2 distinct fixes:

1. Timecode can be read/displayed using Mic Adapter.
2. Timecode can be read/displayed for frame rates other than 23.976.

[dnewman-gpsw]

Only bug found was related to 29.97, that was fixed on HERO11. Just found a new issue with Mic Adaptor, it doesn't currently receive the audio until capture starts, and the timecode is displayed (and read) when the not recording. This a likely a system code change, the code Labs sit upon. Looking into it.

[KerryCG]

I'm using a Hero 10 with Mic Adapter but with a Deity TC-1 timecode box, it is outputting on the left channel and editing tools see the timecode in the left channel audio. However, like above, I never see the timecode on the screen and it doesn't save it to the metadata.

[HanSooloo]

I saw that version 1.50 got released on December 14th. It doesn't explicitly mention that the timecode issue was fixed. Will that go to another release?

[dnewman-gpsw]

Timecode is a Labs only feature. Labs version for HERO10 will likely post official on Monday, but here it is https://gopro.github.io/labs/firmware/bin/LABS_HERO10_01_50_70.zip

However nothing has changed regarding using the mic adapter. This build should have the 29.97 fix for Media Mod. I'm not aware of any other timecode updates.

[HanSooloo]

Timecode is a Labs only feature. Labs version for HERO10 will likely post official on Monday, but here it is https://gopro.github.io/labs/firmware/bin/LABS_HERO10_01_50_70.zip

However nothing has changed regarding using the mic adapter. This build should have the 29.97 fix for Media Mod. I'm not aware of any other timecode updates.

That's great, thanks much! Any idea when the mic adapter fixes would show up?

[dnewman-gpsw]

Maybe never. There is no known cause at this point.

[KerryCG]

So spend 50 bucks on a media mod or it may never work

On Mon, Dec 19, 2022 at 7:02 PM David Newman @.***> wrote:

Maybe never. This is no known cause at the point.

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[HanSooloo]

Updated the camera to the 1.50.70 labs release, and I can confirm the following:

Device configurations:

1. GoPro configured for 4K60
2. ZOOM F6 feeding LTC using 29.97ND setting (no drop frame)
3. Audio channels swapped to make GoPro happy (providing LTC on the LEFT channel)

Test scenarios:

1. With Media Mod: LTC shows up as soon as audio cable is plugged in, regardless of GoPro recording state.
2. With Mic Adapter: LTC doesn't show up in any frame rate configuration (24, 30, etc.)

I understand that the Labs features are experimental, but it is a bit confusing to see a message on the feature's home page that says "... it will only have any effect if you provide Linear TimeCode (LTC) using line-in audio via Media Mod or the GoPro Mic Adapter".

One would assume that using a Mic Adapter is a supported use case. If it doesn't work in this firmware release due to some issues, that is understandable.

Maybe the feature's page could be updated to show what mod is supported with different camera versions. From the looks of it, Hero 11 supports both adapters. Hero 10 (maybe the older ones as well) ONLY supports Media Mod and Mic Adapter may never work.

This will help prevent others from going down the same path I went thinking either their source is broken or their GoPro is broken.

EDIT: Just saw the table here: https://github.com/gopro/labs/tree/master/docs. Still, it would be good to get the main end user facing page updated as well.

[HanSooloo]

Was doing some additional testing today with my GP10 on firmware version 1.50.70 and the ZOOM F6 recorder.

Somehow, the GP10 starting showing randomized timecode on its screen that was swapping between various hours in the day .. almost like random. e.g., I was recording at around 13:40PM EST, and my recording was labeled with 02:40 EST time.

And this wasn't just the GP10's screen. Even the MP4 file tracks themselves were all showing the wrong time.

I was quite surprised to see the (occasionally accurate) timecode on the GP10's display, even though I was using the Mic Adapter.

Will test more and report here later.

Example file info using mediainfo below:

$ mediainfo MAINGX010029.MP4
General
Complete name                            : MAINGX010029.MP4
Format                                   : MPEG-4
Format profile                           : Base Media / Version 1
Codec ID                                 : mp41 (mp41)
File size                                : 552 MiB
Duration                                 : 1 min 17 s
Overall bit rate                         : 59.9 Mb/s
Encoded date                             : UTC 2023-01-05 02:41:00
Tagged date                              : UTC 2023-01-05 02:41:00
xyz                                      : +38.8558-077.4166/

Video
ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : HEVC
Format/Info                              : High Efficiency Video Coding
Format profile                           : Main@L5.1@Main
Codec ID                                 : hvc1
Codec ID/Info                            : High Efficiency Video Coding
Duration                                 : 1 min 17 s
Bit rate                                 : 59.7 Mb/s
Width                                    : 3 840 pixels
Height                                   : 2 160 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Frame rate mode                          : Constant
Frame rate                               : 59.940 (60000/1001) FPS
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 8 bits
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.120
Stream size                              : 549 MiB (100%)
Title                                    : GoPro H.265
Language                                 : English
Encoded date                             : UTC 2023-01-05 02:41:00
Tagged date                              : UTC 2023-01-05 02:41:00
Color range                              : Full
Color primaries                          : BT.709
Transfer characteristics                 : BT.709
Matrix coefficients                      : BT.709
Codec configuration box                  : hvcC

Audio
ID                                       : 2
Format                                   : AAC LC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Audio Codec Low Complexity
Codec ID                                 : mp4a-40-2
Duration                                 : 1 min 17 s
Bit rate mode                            : Constant
Bit rate                                 : 192 kb/s
Nominal bit rate                         : 48.0 kb/s
Channel(s)                               : 2 channels
Channel layout                           : L R
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate                               : 46.875 FPS (1024 SPF)
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Stream size                              : 1.74 MiB (0%)
Title                                    : GoPro AAC
Language                                 : English
Encoded date                             : UTC 2023-01-05 02:41:00
Tagged date                              : UTC 2023-01-05 02:41:00

Other #1
ID                                       : 3
Type                                     : Time code
Format                                   : QuickTime TC
Duration                                 : 1 min 17 s
Bit rate mode                            : Constant
Frame rate                               : 59.940 (60000/1001) FPS
Title                                    : GoPro TCD
Language                                 : English
Encoded date                             : UTC 2023-01-05 02:41:00
Tagged date                              : UTC 2023-01-05 02:41:00

Other #2
Type                                     : meta
Duration                                 : 1 min 17 s
Bit rate mode                            : Variable
Duration_LastFrame                       : -869

[dnewman-gpsw]

Time is set via timecode input, as GoPro cameras only have one RTC. So if the timecode was decoded incorrectly, it will do this. Try different signal levels, see the error goes away.

[HanSooloo]

Thanks for the tip ... turns out the GoPro setting for Mic Adapter was set to Standard Mic instead of Line In. Changing it back to Line In solved the weird LTC values problem.

However, the weird thing remains: With Mic Adapter, the GoPro was able to see "some sort of LTC" and display it on its screen when in Standard Mic mode. So the software is capable of decoding it (albeit inconsistently). With the correct Line In setting LTC decoding is gone.

Feels a bit weird that the software is capable of showing something, but it is "temperamental" :-)

[KerryCG]

I gave up and bought a MediaMod, problem solved.

On Fri, Jan 6, 2023 at 8:13 AM HanSooloo @.***> wrote:

Thanks for the tip ... turns out the GoPro setting for Mic Adapter was set to Standard Mic instead of Line In. Changing it back to Line In solved the weird LTC values problem.

However, the weird thing remains: With Mic Adapter, the GoPro was able to see "some sort of LTC" and display it on its screen when in Standard Mic mode. So the software is capable of decoding it (albeit inconsistently). With the correct Line In setting LTC decoding is gone.

Feels a bit weird that the software is capable of showing something, but it is "temperamental" :-)

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[Diadon81]

I have the same problem with my GoPro 11 + Latest Lab v2.30.70, March 2024 + Deity TC-1 (Timecode feeded into the left channel) and nothing... tried a 24. 23.97, 25 fps in 4k/24 and 4k/25 nothing helps. No timecode displayed on the screen.

[dnewman-gpsw]

This was just fixed in HERO10 - Added $RLTC=1 - Read LTC timecode via MediaMod line input. This extension will be in any future Labs firmware. This issue is the audio in not being sent for Labs processing when it used to.

There is a very crude work around.

By running this script the audio with be enabled, and the LTC scanning will work.

[Diadon81]

Thank you, it works for me. It's strange that this fix wasn't included in the latest Labs software from 2024, considering this discussion originated in mid-2022.

[dnewman-gpsw]

Nothing strange, Labs engineering has always been fast and quick, while adding many other improvements, timecode was accidentally disabled. So it is different, fix and workflow to simply re-enable the feature.

[Diadon81]

Well, I tried to put this command, into the bootable script: !MBOOT="!Lltc"!SAVEltc=Ap!N!R but for some reason it doesn't work. Could you give me advice here?

[dnewman-gpsw]

You have a typo. Should be: !MBOOT="!Lltc"!SAVEltc==Ap!N!R

[Diadon81]

Works, Thank you!