refund Gratipay 1.0 balances

chadwhitacre commented 9 years ago

In Gratipay 2.0 we state the following:

You have until August 19, 2015 (90 days) to migrate your incoming payments from your Gratipay user account to a new Gratipay Team; this will also pay out your current balance. On that date, we intend to clear all remaining payments to Gratipay users, and to clear the balance of any user that is not an owner or member of a team, by refunding the money back to the sources it originally came from.

Since that was published, we've added a way to cash out 1.0 balances, so that's another option folks have before the big refund. We've also pushed the date back to October 1.

Notify

[x] https://gratipay.freshdesk.com/helpdesk/tickets/3103

chadwhitacre commented 9 years ago

We should notify affected people about this 30 days out, on Monday, July 20.

chadwhitacre commented 9 years ago

Draft 1

You are receiving this message because you are carrying a balance of $__.__ on Gratipay.

Three months ago, prompted by legal concerns with our old terms of service, we wrote new terms of service and relaunched as Gratipay 2.0. As mentioned in the 2.0 announcement, we intend to clear out remaining Gratipay 1.0 balances by sending funds back to the original donors to the extent possible. The date for this will be August 20, thirty days from today.

If you would like to withdraw your Gratipay 1.0 balance rather than having it refunded to your original donors, then you have two options:

Apply for [a new Gratipay Team]().

Apply for [a one-time payout]().

In either case, if we approve your application, we will pay out your balance during the next weekly payment cycle. There are five more payment cycles from today before we refund remaining balances. Whatever we are unable to refund to the original donor, we will donate to Watsi.

chadwhitacre commented 9 years ago

August 19 is a Wednesday. Let's push back a day to August 20, to give people that extra payment cycle to get in on payouts.

chadwhitacre commented 9 years ago

That would put 30 days out at Tuesday, July 21. We should send a second email a week out, on August 13. And of course we should send a final email when it's done.

chadwhitacre commented 9 years ago

Here's what we should get done before we send out the 30 day email:

Make team applications suck less.
Implement a one-time payout application.

chadwhitacre commented 9 years ago

Should we try and pull off #3378 as part of this?

chadwhitacre commented 9 years ago

We should also make August 20 the deadline to migrate tips to a new team.

chadwhitacre commented 9 years ago

A precedent, from two weeks after we launched:

As a result, most of the money we collected—over 90%—has gone unclaimed. As of today there’s nearly $150,000 in earmarked money sitting in a separate, untouched bank account.

http://blog.readability.com/2012/06/announcement/

chadwhitacre commented 9 years ago

First draft: "Flushing the Lines."

chadwhitacre commented 9 years ago

@mattbk Can you read that over and see if it makes sense from a support point of view? What questions are people going to ask? Does this post give you the info you need to be able to answer their questions?

Also, I think we should push back the date on this. We need to get some stuff done before we can make an announcement:

Clean up more Pivot bugs, ideally all of them. We want lots of traffic to Gratipay with this post, and we want to not confuse people with bugs when they show up.
Implement the application process for Option 2 (should include email notifications as appropriate), and finish implementing the process for Option 3, which now is supposed to include Option 2 as well as #3568. We want @mattbk to be able to manage the review queue for Option 2.
Pin down the escrow work we want to get done and budget enough time for it. I want to come out of this with a reviewed (https://github.com/gratipay/inside.gratipay.com/issues/285), double-entry-accounted-for (#3618) escrow, with minimal escrow sources (#1383).
Check on https://github.com/gratipay/legal/issues/10 about donating remainder to charity, and review regulatory references.

Let's do this right, people.

mattbk commented 9 years ago

Questions people may have on first reading:

Flushing money? That sounds scary.
What's a tip graph?
Takes until end of 2nd paragraph to know where the money is going (back to donors or to charity).
That "subscriptions" word pops up again.
I still don't know what a tip graph is, and why that makes it impossible for me to apply for a team.
"refund your balance back upstream to the donors it originally came from" You're taking my money and giving it back to the original donors?

Most people are interested in one thing: "What's happening to my money?" If they have to wade through a lot of details, they'll skip reading everything and end up confused. I suggest you keep the first paragraph (or variation), then skip to "Your Options" section, then include the rest of the first section in details somewhere. This will let people get the information they need up-front, but also be able to dig into details and motivations if they really want to.

stevepiercy commented 9 years ago

Option 3 does not resolve an issue that I reported in FreshDesk ticket #2427. Specifically, that I don't want to create a new (and second) PayPal account for a Team when I already have one for my current ~user. I don't want to do create a new PayPal account for KnopProject (e.g., paypal@knop-project.org) because it would require putting my personal information into an organization's PayPal account, and PayPal can and does freeze organization assets.

mattbk commented 9 years ago

I think the confusion here lies in the fact that you have a ~user account set up to be the owner of your team, when ideally you would just use your own ~user account as the owner. That way all payouts go to the owner (~user).

This is predicated on the plan to bring back payroll, wherein a team would be made up of multiple ~users (one of them being owner), and all divying up of funds would happen within Gratipay.

If payroll never comes back, there would be a case for having a separate ~user owner for each team (but it would be a poor representation of a team), because that ~user owner would be responsible for receiving payouts and distributing them among the team members, which adds a lot of friction.

stevepiercy commented 9 years ago

@mattbk nailed it.

For me, as the owner of a Team, bringing back payroll is a requirement to use Gratipay. I am concerned, however, that ~PersonUser should not assume the liability of taxes, labor law, and reporting requirements for distributing funds to Team's Members.

I'm not certain about the current transition state, but I'm patient and will wait for good things to come.

mattbk commented 9 years ago

I already sent this to @stevepiercy, but copying this here from https://github.com/gratipay/inside.gratipay.com/issues/242#issuecomment-123808420 for clarification:

Does a ~user/owner assume liability for reporting income to the team to the government, in the same way an employer must?

Yes. That's section 5.iii of the new terms.

You are responsible for paying any taxes and withholdings associated with your use of the Service. Team Owners, and not Gratipay, are responsible for compliance with all laws, as well as any taxes and withholding requirements, applicable to payments made to Team Members (whether through the Payroll feature or otherwise), including without limitation payroll tax, unemployment insurance, and worker compensation insurance payments. Team Owners are also responsible for providing any required tax and other documentation to employees, independent contractors, tax authorities, or any other person.

stevepiercy commented 9 years ago

@whit537 For the purposes of this draft, and for those who wish to become Team Owners, I think it is important to emphasize section 5.iii in the new terms. Assuming the role of Team Owner has greater responsibility and more duties than an ordinary User, and constitutes a significant change from the ordinary User perspective. Currently the draft has no mention of tax or other additional responsibility for this role. Thanks for your consideration.

mattbk commented 9 years ago

Per https://github.com/gratipay/gratipay.com/pull/3510#issuecomment-124223679, I think the team requirement should be very obvious if an email goes out about flushing or announcing this post.

chadwhitacre commented 9 years ago

Let's handle the refunding of escrow separately from the deletion of the tip graph. We can delete the tip graph after Balanced is gone, but we need to refund escrow before then. Let's keep this as simple as possible.

chadwhitacre commented 9 years ago

Hmm ... it'd be really nice to make a clean break, though ...

chadwhitacre commented 9 years ago

I'm patient and will wait for good things to come.

You're awesome, @stevepiercy. :-)

chadwhitacre commented 9 years ago

Second draft, incorporating feedback from @mattbk and https://github.com/gratipay/legal/issues/10:

"Refunding 1.0"

mattbk commented 9 years ago

"Option 3 automatically includes Option 2." should be "2 includes 1."

On July 29, 2015 4:02:47 PM CDT, Chad Whitacre notifications@github.com wrote:

Second draft, incorporating feedback from @mattbk and https://github.com/gratipay/legal/issues/10:

"Refunding 1.0"

Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub: https://github.com/gratipay/gratipay.com/issues/3539#issuecomment-126094939

Sent from a phone that, although intelligent, is not street smart.

chadwhitacre commented 9 years ago

Good catch, fixed.

chadwhitacre commented 9 years ago

I'm waffling on whether or not to delete the tip graph as part of this. Currently leaning towards yes, delete the tip graph, for a clean break with 1.0. We don't want to have to make a second communications push on a similar topic a month later.

chadwhitacre commented 9 years ago

Delete the tip graph means:

drop table tips;

chadwhitacre commented 9 years ago

tips is the table where we recorded the intentions to weekly tip ~users.

chadwhitacre commented 9 years ago

"Refunding 1.0" assumes charging in arrears (#3378) is already done.

mattbk commented 9 years ago

It would be interesting to someday bring back the tip data for people to see, but maybe the schism between 1.0 and 2.0 is too great. That doesn't mess with people's history at all (useful for personal accounting and taxes), does it?

chadwhitacre commented 9 years ago

@mattbk Maybe an "export tips" feature? Reticketed as #3651.

chadwhitacre commented 9 years ago

And no, that doesn't mess with history. History comes from exchanges, transfers, and (since #3455) payments. After #3618 history will be a journal of the ledger.

chadwhitacre commented 9 years ago

To: Balanced Support Subject: Gratipay plans

Hey Balanced!

Not sure who's left there on the skeleton crew, but I wanted to get in touch to let you know about our plans over here at Gratipay for closing out our Balanced account. We're planning to really take it down to the wire, and are hoping to do a lot of refunds during the first week of October.

The reason is that we have about $150,000 in "Gratipay 1.0 money" that we need to flush out of our system now that we have relaunched as Gratipay 2.0. We're trying to pay out as much of that as possible, but the bottom line is that we're expecting to have to refund most of it, and I understand that October 9 is the planned last day to be able to do that.

I wanted to get on your radar to let you know what our plans are. We're aiming for October 1 for our Big 1.0 Refund. Are you still on track to keep the refund API open through October 9? Any red flags you see with our plan?

chadwhitacre commented 9 years ago

We are really taking this down to the gosh darn wire. Today is September 1. As I revisit the blog post in order to publish it tonight, I'm putting the timeline together: we need to give people 30 days to apply for a one-time payout or a Team. But, we then need to give ourselves time to review them all. We need at least a week for review, which pushes the big refund back to October 8 ... the day before Balanced turns off the refund API! :fearful:

chadwhitacre commented 9 years ago

I haven't heard back from Balanced yet. We should really make contact with them. I used to have Matin's number but I lost it when my phone died. I'll send him an email ...

To: Matin Subject: big refund on October 8?

Greetings, friend. Hope you're doing well and that Balanced is coming in for a smooth landing. :)

I'm writing because over here in Gratipay-land we're faced with the need to refund most of the $140,000 we've accumulated in escrow. Our ideal timeframe for doing this is early October. Since we're taking this so close to the wire, I wanted to coordinate with you to make sure our plan will to work.

Could you give me a call at 412-925-4220? I lost all my contacts or I'd call you. :)

Thanks, Matin!

chadwhitacre commented 9 years ago

I'm waffling on whether or not to delete the tip graph as part of this. Currently leaning towards yes, delete the tip graph, for a clean break with 1.0. We don't want to have to make a second communications push on a similar topic a month later.

I'm still thinking "yes," for the reason articulated.

chadwhitacre commented 9 years ago

Alright, I revised the blog post. It's ready for final review:

https://medium.com/@Gratipay/97d54e6d40ed

We can publish with Team review as it stands today (though we'll at least need to add an "Apply" button to the homepage; #3710), but we can't publish without the one-time payout application (#3743). I'm going to work on that next.

We should also advertise this blog post somewhere on the site, probably on every page. Speaking of advertising, how else should we try to get the word out? Do we need to go back to Twitter for this? Thoughts, @mattbk et al.?

chadwhitacre commented 9 years ago

Published as unlisted, so I can get the link to include in #3743:

https://medium.com/gratipay-blog/140-000-97d54e6d40ed

chadwhitacre commented 9 years ago

I'm not going to get #3743 done tonight. I'm too spent. :-(

I propose to make a simple "1.0 Payout" placeholder page that tells people to send us email. Hopefully I can #3743 done tomorrow morning.

mattbk commented 9 years ago

I know this will add work for review, but I think a welcoming statement like "If you think your team might clash with the Gratipay brand, you're still invited to apply" or something that sounds more inviting.

On September 1, 2015 7:40:55 PM CDT, Chad Whitacre notifications@github.com wrote:

Published as unlisted, so I can get the link to include in #3743:

https://medium.com/gratipay-blog/140-000-97d54e6d40ed

Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub: https://github.com/gratipay/gratipay.com/issues/3539#issuecomment-136903306

Sent from a phone that, although intelligent, is not street smart.

chadwhitacre commented 9 years ago

@mattbk Fair enough. How about simply linking out to the howto without going into further details in the blog post about the specifics of review?

If you’d like to continue receiving money on Gratipay, then you should apply for a Team, and we’ll review your application.

chadwhitacre commented 9 years ago

1.0 payout stub (#3745) is deployed, and blog post is fully published. Happy to keep tweaking it ...

stevepiercy commented 9 years ago

Looks good. Two suggestions.

How do I know whether I have funds in my Gratipay account waiting for me to withdraw? (Yes, a dumb question, but... :wink: )
Add a "Do nothing" option, with a link to check a user's Gratipay balance.

chadwhitacre commented 9 years ago

Good ideas, @stevepiercy. #3744 will answer the "Do I have a balance?" question. I like the idea of adding a "Do nothing" option on the blog post, I think it can link to the same place if we word the page properly.

mattbk commented 9 years ago

How about simply linking out to the howto without going into further details in the blog post about the specifics of review?

Looks good.

chadwhitacre commented 9 years ago

We have a number of participants with a 1.0 balance less than PayPal's minimum payout of $0.50. How are we going to pay them out? Dwolla (#726)?

chadwhitacre commented 9 years ago

The total is less than $50. That's small enough that we could probably get away with donating it somewhere.

chadwhitacre commented 9 years ago

Well, I guess we refund it! :)

chadwhitacre commented 9 years ago

Balances by Range

Range ($)	Number
1,000.00+	17
100.00—999.99	271
10.00—99.99	812
0.50—9.99	937
0.01—0.49	222
total	2,259

chadwhitacre commented 9 years ago

50 participants received under Gratipay 1.0, and have a balance now, but had a zero balance at the Gratipocalypse.

chadwhitacre commented 9 years ago

Scratch that: only 7 (I wasn't taking exchange status into account).

chadwhitacre commented 9 years ago

From Matin:

Sorry for the slow response.

I'll give you a call tomorrow to figure out how best to coordinate this.

Thanks, Matin. :-)

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