Stream is barely visible on scrub

[sommerluk]

Stream is barely visible on scrub.

The waterway=stream is barely visible on the natural=scrub, especially when combined with intermittent=yes. Screenshot from http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/5.34678/-3.98195

Not sure what would be a good solution for this, if any…

[SomeoneElseOSM]

It's bug-for-bug compatible with real life - even on the ground in summer you sometimes can't tell where the streams would run after it's been raining :)

[moliha]

But the map should help finding streams and other waterways. This could be easier, if the color used for waterways had better contrast to the various greens used for forest, scrub etc. I think a darker and more blue color for waterways would be better.

[kocio-pl]

Similar to https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues/1781 and https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues/1427.

[kocio-pl]

Unfortunately still the same with a new water color.

[HolgerJeromin]

for reference

[Adamant36]

@kocio-pl making scrub a tad darker seems to help if that's an option. I think its a tad to light. Its just a mock up, but it looks better. Maybe it could be a little lighter if need be and still have the same effect.

[kocio-pl]

All the colors look different, did you use Chrome for a screenshot? It has known problems with color profile.

[Adamant36]

I just did it in paint with the paint can. The only things I changed where were the scrub fill color and some of the plant icons. I'll have to test it in kosmtik though now that you mention it.

[Tomasz-W]

@Adamant36

Here is a visualisation of different green shades used for certain plants in osm-carto.

As you can see, scrub colour is quite not maching the rest. The fourth square in 50-200 cm column is an experimental scrub pattern on a #aedfa3 (orchard/ vineyard colour), Can you make some test renderings with streams with it?

[Tomasz-W]

@Adamant36 Can you take care of this issue next? I'm planning a quite big proposal of coordinating non-landcover green shades (i.a. @park and @leisure-fill change), but of course it has to match another green shades to make complex system, so this issue and https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues/3411 have to be done first.

Here are my Ps mock-ups with proposed above #AEDFA3. Visibility of a intermittent stream seems to be better. It's not perfect, but we propably won't find better shade without making mess with another green shades.

(click to view full size!) scrub + intermittent stream before scrub + intermittent stream with #AEDFA3 "camo" before "camo" after

[Adamant36]

@Tomasz-W, sure. I'll try to get to it in the next couple of days.

[Adamant36]

Scrub before and after with intermittent stream. I'll do some more tests later. It seems like it needs to be a tad darker though maybe. before after

[Tomasz-W]

@Adamant36 The idea is to just use "@orchard" colour for scrub in landcover code. If we start to play with this colour, we will have to test also orchard, vineyard and plant_nursery compared to grass, forest, etc. I think it's not worth it and IMO it would propably end as a waste of time. Examples above shows nice improvement with using orchard colour and I'm OK with it.

Please test also some places with orchard/ vineyard/ plant_nursery mix with scrub like here: https://www.openstreetmap.org//#map=18/50.05146/19.87933

[Adamant36]

@Tomasz-W, is there a reason scrub couldn't be changed to more of a golden brown/greyish color since scrub land isn't really green most of the time anyway and there can be a lot of patches of dirt in between the woody plants? To me, a solid green seems to much like woods or that there is consistent ground cover when there isn't.

Id also suggest the same for grassland/meadow. More of golden brown/gray color. Especially if the color of parks/pitches/sports centers is going to be changed. We could create a scrub/grassland/meadow color category made up of gold/brown and free up green for parks/woods. Otherwise, I don't think any of them are doable because we don't have enough green shades, or that just adding a pattern to meadows would be adequate. Plus, it just looks more realistic.

What do you think about it @jeisenbe?

[Tomasz-W]

@Adamant36 My assumpion is that we have definetely too much unnecessary green shades now, which makes map cluttered and not intuitive in some areas. Another problem is a threat of close similarity of some colours of different features.

I'm sure that meadows and grasslands (https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues/3143) are rather green, so we should stay with planned 'grass + pattern' rendering for them. Heath (https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues/780) has another colour, but very similar height (see the diagram https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues/780#issuecomment-418130803), so I would include it also in this rendering. As scrubs can be yellow/ brown as well as green, and they have different height, we can try some olive shade for them (maybe heath colour re-use after moving it to green?), but you have to remember about another similars colours in use (see https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/AreasTab) to avoid conflicts. I consider previously proposed solution (https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues/2098#issuecomment-424980808) as a good enough one, but it's always good to try other options if someone wants to.

[Adamant36]

@Tomasz-W, I think grassland is only green for the two or three months a year that it gets rain in most places. Then its more of a high grass, dry golden brown hay color. Which is one of the reasons its used for grassing land and why I proposed it be colored similar to farmland. Meadows on the other hand might be green more often, but they are also usually a mix of grass and wild flowers during "normal" times. So, make sense to not them color meadows as straight green.

[Tomasz-W]

@Adamant36 That's why I propose to use pattern, which would suggest that is not a typically green area without making conflicts with other colours, see https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues/3143#issuecomment-439680472

[Adamant36]

Id also add that through a lot of research I have done, at least in america there is a major amount of miss tagging when it comes to grassland/meadows/grass/heath/scrub. Heath seems to be a mainly European thing, although there is a lot of things here miss tagged as it that should probably be scrub (or maybe visa versa?). Whereas, know one seems to know the difference between a meadow, grassland, or grass. While I think the issue is partly due to them being landuse instead of landcover tags, the very similar similar colors also probably don't help (1). Giving grassland a pattern fill would help slightly, but I think giving them drastically, more realistic, colors would also.

1. People in America also seem to miss tag whole parks as playgrounds a lot to. That could be further evidence for the fact that coloring different things very similar leads to tagging problems or it could just allude to the fact that Americans as a group are extremely bad at the subtleties involved in things like this. Who knows.

P.s. The pattern might work for meadows, but I don't think it does for grassland. As grassland isn't green most of the time in most places and its not a "patterned" looking thing in sky shots either. Also, it doesn't help free up green colors or deal with the issues mentioned above this paragraph of miss tagging. Which I think making grassland part of farmland (most of the time its managed for hay) would.

If nothing else, at least it would free up a potential better green color for scrub. There's no reason we can't change the color of grassland and also still have a pattern on it either. They aren't mutually exclusive.

[jeisenbe]

Now that natural areas and landcover are being rendered at z7, z6 and z7, we should consider how a new scrub color will work when mixed with other landcovers.

I would like to suggest simplifying the number of different natural colors used at low zoom, just like we render all developed land the same at low zoom.

For example, scrub, orchards and swamp can all be the same shade of darker green, and grass, heath, meadow etc can be one shade of lighter green.

To make this work best, it would be nice if the color for scrub is between forest and grass, but darker than heath, so there is a gradation: woodland -> scrubland -> heath -> grass.

I think this will be more understandable for map users; darker is higher vegetation. On Sun, Nov 18, 2018 at 6:31 PM Tomasz Wójcik notifications@github.com wrote:

@Adamant36 https://github.com/Adamant36 My assumpion is that we have definetely too much unnecessary green shades now, which makes map cluttered and not intuitive in some areas. Another problem is a threat of close similarity of some colours of different features.

I'm sure that meadows and grasslands (#3143 https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues/3143) are rather green, so we should stay with planned 'grass + pattern' rendering for them. Heath (#780 https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues/780) has another colour, but very similar height (see the diagram #780 (comment) https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues/780#issuecomment-418130803), so I would include it also in this rendering. As scrubs can be yellow/ brown as well as green, and they have different height, we can try some olive shade for them (maybe heath colour re-use after moving it to green?), but you have to remember about another similars colours in use (see https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/AreasTab) to not make any conflict. I consider previously proposed solution (#2098 (comment) https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues/2098#issuecomment-424980808) as a good enough one, but it's always good to try other options if someone wants to.

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[jeisenbe]

@Adamant36 wrote “I think grassland is only green for the two or three months a year that it gets rain in most places”

I can understand why you think this, as a Californian. But most other climates get rain during the summer; the USA west coast is a rare exception. The grass is green year-round in the tropics, in the southeastern USA and in many other places. The most common time for grass to die back is actually in Winter (the one time it gets green in central/Southern California).

That said, a slight more yellow-green color could work. On Sun, Nov 18, 2018 at 8:00 PM Joseph Eisenberg joseph.eisenberg@gmail.com wrote:

Now that natural areas and landcover are being rendered at z7, z6 and z7, we should consider how a new scrub color will work when mixed with other landcovers.

I would like to suggest simplifying the number of different natural colors used at low zoom, just like we render all developed land the same at low zoom.

For example, scrub, orchards and swamp can all be the same shade of darker green, and grass, heath, meadow etc can be one shade of lighter green.

To make this work best, it would be nice if the color for scrub is between forest and grass, but darker than heath, so there is a gradation: woodland -> scrubland -> heath -> grass.

I think this will be more understandable for map users; darker is higher vegetation. On Sun, Nov 18, 2018 at 6:31 PM Tomasz Wójcik notifications@github.com wrote:

@Adamant36 https://github.com/Adamant36 My assumpion is that we have definetely too much unnecessary green shades now, which makes map cluttered and not intuitive in some areas. Another problem is a threat of close similarity of some colours of different features.

I'm sure that meadows and grasslands (#3143 https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues/3143) are rather green, so we should stay with planned 'grass + pattern' rendering for them. Heath (#780 https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues/780) has another colour, but very similar height (see the diagram #780 (comment) https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues/780#issuecomment-418130803), so I would include it also in this rendering. As scrubs can be yellow/ brown as well as green, and they have different height, we can try some olive shade for them (maybe heath colour re-use after moving it to green?), but you have to remember about another similars colours in use (see https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/AreasTab) to not make any conflict. I consider previously proposed solution (#2098 (comment) https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues/2098#issuecomment-424980808) as a good enough one, but it's always good to try other options if someone wants to.

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[Adamant36]

just like we render all developed land the same at low zoom There's actually an issue about that with quarries being rendered the same as residential areas when zoomed out #2905. So, that type of unification isn't always necessarily a good thing. Also, what about with more zoomed in levels? I agree with you that there should be a gradation, but I'm not sure how that would work with leisure stuff also being green/darker green.

There's a big need to free up green stuff in general. You might be correct about grassland. It makes sense. I've looked around California and done searchers on Google images for references. I still think though that making it more hay color or similar to farmland would be a good idea. Even if it might not as realistic. Especially since farmland is being rendered at low zooms levels now and it would be cool if it was chunked in with it on that since its a part of farming infrastructure.

Scrub, I don't know. It could be colored something else, but I guess green would work also. @Tomasz-W, can you come up with a color block thing with the plant colors you already did in the comments above and add in the different leisure colors, along with your new proposed park color? We might need a natural green color meta ticket or a natural/leisure green color meta ticket. I'm not sure we can change them in isolation of each other.

@jeisenbe, say green is over used and we need to free it up some. What are you willing to sacrifice if not scrub or grassland?

[jeisenbe]

Pitches don’t have to be green; they can be any surface; concrete, sand, grass, clay. Same with sports centers and other leisure, though green is probably reasonable.

I’d say green should first be used for natural landcover, with woodland as 1st priority.

I do support rendering meadow the same as farmland at low zoom, because it is also a type of agricultural landuse.

At high zoom levels we could try making meadow a little more similar to farmland, but it will be hard to change it without making them too similar.

On Sun, Nov 18, 2018 at 8:31 PM Adamant36 notifications@github.com wrote:

just like we render all developed land the same at low zoom There's actually an issue about that with quarries being rendered the same as residential areas when zoomed out #2905 https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues/2905. So, that type of unification isn't always necessarily a good thing. Also, what about with more zoomed in levels? I agree with you that there should be a gradation, but I'm not sure how that would work with leisure stuff also being green/darker green.

There's a big need to free up green stuff in general. You might be correct about grassland. It makes sense. I've looked around California and done searchers on Google images for references. I still think though that making it more hay color or similar to farmland would be a good idea. Even if it might not as realistic. Especially since farmland is being rendered at low zooms levels now and it would be cool if it was chunked in with it on that since its a part of farming infrastructure.

Scrub, I don't know. It could be colored something else, but I guess green would work also. @Tomasz-W https://github.com/Tomasz-W, can you come up with a color block thing with the plant colors you already did in the comments above and add in the different leisure colors, along with your new proposed park color? We might need a natural green color meta ticket or a natural/leisure green color meta ticket. I'm not sure we can change them in isolation of each other.

@jeisenbe https://github.com/jeisenbe, say green is over used and we need to free it up some. What are you willing to sacrifice if not scrub or grassland?

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[Tomasz-W]

We might need a natural green color meta ticket or a natural/leisure green color meta ticket. I'm not sure we can change them in isolation of each other.

@Adamant36 They are listed at the end of https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues/3298#issuecomment-405039682. I've opened https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues/3517 because they are connected to each other by "lighten/ darken" and they all have simillar functions. I think that in physical green areas case meta-ticket won't help because anyway we have to test different rendering options for each one, one by one.

If you or @jeisenbe or anybody else wants to work on this, at this stage I think that the best way to solve this mess would be to simply put test renderings of landcover-mixed areas in certain tickets. We would have a comparsion to another green areas then, and if it will be needed, we always can reference another tickets.

[jeisenbe]

I've been designing a more print-friendly version of this style, and one of the changes I have tried was changing scrub and heath color to look more harmonious with forest and grassland, so that there is a clear progression from low/annual vegetation to high/perennial vegetation.

I'm using @grass: #cdebb0; (same), @heath: #cae2a5; @scrub: #badba4; @forest: #add19e; (same)

Here is an examples, next to farmland, untagged areas, and residential (The scrub is not perfect yet, because I haven't changed the color of the scrub pattern .png to match!)

Current rendering

After changing heath to #cae2a5 and scrub: #badba4

[Tomasz-W]

For me it's not olive, but just some darker green. I'll suggest some possible colour code later.

[Tomasz-W]

My proposition:

• meadow -> @grass + 10% meadow pattern (https://gist.github.com/Tomasz-W/dc2b8fe24c9f50f60b49a40765835d5c)
• heath, grassland-> @farmland or #DEE5B8 + 10% meadow pattern
• scrub -> #DEE5B8 + scrub pattern

Photoshop mock-ups (sorry for green scrub pattern, I can't leap over it): (click to view full size!)

[Tomasz-W]

Another possible one: #D1E0B4. I like it even more.

[jeisenbe]

On searching the old threads I found this nice color picker: http://davidjohnstone.net/pages/lch-lab-colour-gradient-picker

Here is the current rendering again, with more intermittent streams added, and the new version with just 2 changes: heath to #cae2a5 and scrub: #badba4 (the prior images also had other changes from that "printable" branch)

Current with streams:

Intermittent streams with heath #cae2a5 and scrub #badba4

[jeisenbe]

D1E0B4 looks pretty good; it still feels similar enough to grassland and woodland that you can tell they are all types of vegetation, but it is still distinguishable.

d1e0b4 is the same as rgb(209, 224, 180) or lch(87, 24, 122): http://davidjohnstone.net/pages/lch-lab-colour-gradient-picker

I don't think it would work to combine heath with farmland color. Heathlands are not usually managed like farmland. They may be used for low-intensity grazing, but are more similar to scrubland in most places.

It would be better to have a unique heath pattern, rather than reusing that of grassland, because grasses and dwarf shrubs are quite different. Heath dwarf shrubs are perennials with hard, woody stems or trunks, while grasses are annuals with green / soft stems.

I think @imagico may have tried out some heath patterns on his alt-colors fork?

[jeisenbe]

Test image with the color for scrub suggested by @Tomasz-W, (but no heath pattern yet)

d1e0b4

It might be best to shift the hue of grass/meadow/grassland to be slightly more yellow-green, less saturated, and lighter, because it is quite far from the new farmland color. This will give us more room to work with, in the color space between grass and forest. Farmland is now #eef0d5; Lch(94,14,112).

Here I am trying #dcecb3 grass/meadow = lch(91,30,119) with d1e0b4for scrub/heath =lch(87, 24, 122) Now this looks a little like the Humanitarian style (HDM-Carto).

This link should show all the colors above, plus the current orchard/vineyard and park colors: http://davidjohnstone.net/pages/lch-lab-colour-gradient-picker#eff0d5,deecb2,cbdba6,add19e,aedfa3,c8facc

This would need extensive testing with different environments, because grass in particular can be found in all sorts of places: college campuses, parks, residential areas, etc; and with vineyards, orchards, swamps, marshlands, etc.

I would like to use the scrub color as a background for mangroves, so that's another thing to consider. Any improvement that makes intermittent streams visible should also help with that goal, because the wetland pattern would also be in water color.

The scrub color change alone would also need extensive testing.

Would @Adamant36 be able to use the pattern generator that @imagico made, to try some new png scrub patterns to match the new colors: http://blog.imagico.de/new-pattern-generator-version/

[jeisenbe]

Here's another test image with #dcecb3 grass/meadow and d1e0b4for scrub/heath, with a golf area and campsite added for comparison:

Another area, with a campsite and leisure (festival grounds) area: Current master:

dcecb3 grass/meadow and d1e0b4for scrub/heath:

http://davidjohnstone.net/pages/lch-lab-colour-gradient-picker Colors at the link are farmland, new grass/meadow, new scrub/heath, forest/wood, orchard/vineyard, park, in that order.

Here's the current colors :http://davidjohnstone.net/pages/lch-lab-colour-gradient-picker#eff0d5,cdebb0,b5e3b5,add19e,aedea3,c8facc,d6d99f farmland, current grass/meadow, current scrub, forest/wood, orchard/vineyard, park, plus current heath.

[Adamant36]

Nice. I really like @jeisenbe's meadow color with @Tomasz-W's scrub color. That was totally what I was thinking about with scrub.

[jragusa]

I remind you that the aim of this issue is to improve the readability of intermittent water paths on scrub and not to harmonise all natural landcovers.

[Adamant36]

@jragusa, at least "harmonizing all natural landcovers" would help make intermittent water paths on scrubs more visible. At least in theory. Also, its extremely hard to change one landuse color in isolation without considering the colors of other ones along with it.

[jragusa]

I agree but in this case it would be better to see intermittent waters on the modified colour to avoid any regressions ;)

[Adamant36]

@jragusa, first picture in https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues/2098#issuecomment-439749088. I'm sure there will be more.

[Tomasz-W]

@jeisenbe:

• at this stage I wouldn't touch grass colour (it's not necessary and we have much other things to do, but we can try with moving similar campsite colour for it later, colour proposed by you is too yellowish imo)
• using the same colour for heath and scrub (with different patterns) is ok for me.
• I think that golf colour wouldn't fit any natural landcover, but we can consider moving it for pitches, as you wanted to change their colour

Can you try to make a PR for heath and scrub based on #d1e0b4 with different patterns?

[jeisenbe]

Before we go to a PR, we should consider if it is possible to still have a different background color for heath and scrub.

Back in 2015 there was a PR that proposed to unify the scrub and heath background color, and add a new pattern for heath, which was rejected: https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/pull/1733

Also see the discussion about heath starting here: https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues/780#issuecomment-129184704

@Imagico disagreed with combining heath and scrub. But he suggested that we might try having a continue of colors from heath through scrub to forest/wood, eg getting darker and greener as we go along, but grass / meadow could be a different sort of color because the type of vegetation and landuse are quite different.

However, I do like the pattern shown for heath on the PR #1733 by @matkoniecz; something like that could work, or perhaps something a little more rounded on top, but with a different background color than that used from scrub.

[jeisenbe]

Here's a new comparison of the current vegetation and green colors: http://davidjohnstone.net/pages/lch-lab-colour-gradient-picker#eff0d5,cdebb0,d6d99f,b5e3b5,add19e,aedea3,c8facc,aae0cb,b5e3b5,def6c0

The list order is: farmland, grass/meadow, heath, scrub, forest/wood, orchard/vineyard, park, pitch, golf, campsite.

Here is just the scrub change, with heath, grass, and the rest left the same: http://davidjohnstone.net/pages/lch-lab-colour-gradient-picker#eff0d5,cfecb1,d5d89f,d1e0b4,add19e,aedea3,c8facc,aae0cb,b6e3b5,def6c0

Rendering without the patterns, eg what we would see at lower zoom levels, only other change is d1e0b4 for scrub:

The new d1e0b4 scrub color has a delta (difference) of 8.4 with the current heath color, and 11.3 with the current wood/forest color. This looks pretty good; its different enough from heath to be distinct, but still somewhat similar. It has a difference of 9.0 with the current campsite color, which is a little close but ok, and 12.5 with farmland, according to the linked color picker.

So we could keep the current heath color and grass color for now, and just change scrub, though it would be nice to have a slightly less brown color for heath.

Re: test renderings with new patterns; I have not yet installed the pattern generator yet.

[Adamant36]

@jeisenbe, normally I wouldn't mind waiting to do a PR until we get the other things besides scrub dealt with, but this issue was specific to scrub and the new release is coming out on the 23rd. So it would be good if scrub was included in it in order to see it in the wild and also to honor the intent of the original issue creator. Otherwise, we will have to wait another month until the next version comes out for it to be widely released. There's no reason we can't do that and then work on the other things in a meta ticket or here in the mean time.

[jeisenbe]

If we want to change heath, we may need to change campsite and grass as well.

I tried making some extensive changes, including the leisure and campsite and golf unification as @Tomasz-W suggested.

Here I have used the current golf color for the new park color and used the new leisure (new park lightened 5%) for campsites and other areas. This frees up the current campsite color to use for grass (it is quite similar to the current grass color), and allows the use of a lighter, greener heath color. I've also had to adjust the scrub color to match better. It's quite difficult to get it right.

http://davidjohnstone.net/pages/lch-lab-colour-gradient-picker#eef0d5,def6c0,dde8ad,c9deb3,add19e,aedea3,c8facc,aae0cb,b6e3b5,def6c0

Farmland eef0d5, Grass/Meadow def6c0, heath dde8ad, scrub d1e0b4, forest/wood add19e, orchard/vineyard aedfa3, *park b5e3b5, pitch b8dabd, leisure lighten park 5%; also campsite and golf = leisure now. I've had to adjust the outlines and text color, still WIP:

Text area 1 at z15: z16:

Test 2 at z15: z16:

Mountain area test: Next to bog and marsh areas (which match grass and heath color)

[jeisenbe]

Comparisons between current master, scrub changed to d1e0b4 (without pattern just for testing) or extensive color changes (without patterns; would need to be added for heath and scrub)

Northern Ireland, NE of Belfast: (notice the patch of scrub next to bog in the upper left corner, also parks, pitches and golf areas) http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=14/54.6300/-5.8296 Current z14 Scrub d1e0b4 Extensive changes to grass, heath, scrub, park, leisure

Dunmurry, Northern Ireland: Park, stadium, scrubland, orchards etc http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=15/54.5422/-5.9806 Current z15 Scrub d1e0b4 only Extensive changes to greens as above

[Adamant36]

@jeisenbe, can you just do some test renderings with only the scrub color changed that involves intermittent streams please? Its probably hard for people to keep up with the 6 different color changes at once and not get off the topic of how intermittent streams look in the process. Plus, its what the issue is about and its kind of pointless to change the scrub color if it doesn't look good with streams still. Also, the other stuff can be changed later in a meta issue if need be.

Its better to tackle one thing at a time if its possible. We have already established that the new scrub color looks good, not that it works good with intermittent streams though. I think you should just focus on that, give other people a chance to provide feedback on it, and then move on to the other stuff once we know its good.

[jeisenbe]

I've already shown this image with intermittent streams on scrub with the new color suggested by ATomasz-W: d1e0b4

And this image, with the old png still used for the scrub pattern (this needs to be updated):

Here are some real-world examples from Hawaii, with a golf course next door, by chance: http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=15/20.7490/-156.8960 (Should I admit that I just realized that the current scrub background color is the same as the current golf course fill color, b5e3b5? This suggests it would not be perfect as a park color; intermittent stream are rare in developed parks, but not unheard-of) z15 current z16 current z17 current

With d1e0b4 for scrub (no pattern yet) z15 scrub d1e0b4 z16 d1e0b4 z17 d1e0b4

[Tomasz-W]

@jeisenbe Please add some test renderings with #d1e0b4 with scrub pattern.

[jeisenbe]

I've made a new scrub pattern file with #a3b886 for the pattern to match the #d1e0b4 background best:

a3b886

It looks like this pattern is a little denser and more random than the current scrub pattern. I can try making some others if necessary.

Hawaii: z15

z16

You can see the file (scrub2.png) on https://github.com/jeisenbe/openstreetmap-carto/blob/scrub-only/symbols/scrub2.png

[jeisenbe]

More widely spaced pattern: https://github.com/jeisenbe/openstreetmap-carto/blob/scrub-only/symbols/scrub3.png

Hawaii z15 http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=15/20.7490/-156.8960

z16

[jeisenbe]

Maybe the pattern needs to be lighter; the forest/wood pattern is much closer to the background color, and it looks like the current scrub pattern is also closer to the background color than what I've just shown.

Scrub pattern 4: b5c498 pattern on d1e0b4 background

Test area with scrub 4:

Hawaii z15 with scrub 4:

PNG for testing:

[jeisenbe]

We've been discussing the scrub color change on another issue, https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues/780 "Improve Natural=Heath Color", and there is a suggestion to use a 3% darker color than the #d1e0b4 that has been shown above, eg. #c8d7ab.

So here are some tests with scrub background color #c8d7ab and a new scrub pattern in #b0be93 (jsdotgenerator was used with distance 24, relaxed 3 times with relaxation radius 32 metric 2. Rendered without pixel alignment to get a more naturally fuzzy look.

With intermittent streams:

This color is a little darker (3%) than the previous, but the streams are still visible

[Adamant36]

@jeisenbe, I like the new pattern. Whats the advantage over the original though? Maybe the same thing could be done for the forest pattern also at some point.