Add rendering for historic=ruins

[EdLoach]

Neither POI or area/multipolygon ruins are currently rendered. http://www.openstreetmap.org/note/114642 brought this to my attention, as the castle named in the note is already mapped as both POI and multipolygon.

For POI, perhaps just the name rendered, and for areas - well I'll let you pick a suitable colour. The wiki also suggests a lot of ways are also tagged as ruins - perhaps for these render a bit like generic barriers?

[thecrazychemist]

Yes, there is a need for this. historic=ruins should render on the map.

[kocio-pl]

I guess dashed outline (as mentioned here, citing OsmAnd) could work as a visual hint.

[nebulon42]

I don't think that works for historic=ruins. AFAIK OsmAnd uses an icon (shown in the screen) for historic=ruins. A dashed outline makes only sense for building=ruins (see https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues/1898).

[dieterdreist]

sent from a phone

Il giorno 24 set 2016, alle ore 21:07, Michael Glanznig notifications@github.com ha scritto:

I don't think that works for historic=ruins.

what s the difference to archaeological site? Maybe we can use the same rendering?

[kocio-pl]

What about this icon of ruined castle, proposed for Osmic by @MaestroGlanz:

https://github.com/MaestroGlanz/osmic/blob/b6f0eaa85eedfc453e5c9b8b19ca8d1d3a89e54d/tourism/castle-ruins.svg

[kocio-pl]

Example rendering on z17:

[polarbearing]

The separate shape above is implausible, what is it supposed to be?

[kocio-pl]

I agree that ruined castle icon is not working in practice. I guess we can use the idea of decomposed shape for something simpler, like house.

[ghost]

It is directly derived from the castle icon. I could change it to a version where the parts are joined.

[kocio-pl]

Please try, we're still looking for something good enough.

[SomeoneElseOSM]

FWIW (different map) for nodes I went for the name and a dot, in a "historical" colour https://map.atownsend.org.uk/maps/map/map.html#zoom=17&lat=53.429972&lon=-1.26303 and for ways the name if present and a "not quite a building" colour https://map.atownsend.org.uk/maps/map/map.html#zoom=19&lat=53.122449&lon=-1.853998 and https://map.atownsend.org.uk/maps/map/map.html#zoom=20&lat=53.2699203&lon=-1.989286 .

The actual colours won't transfer to OSM Carto, but I'm not convinced you need a "characteristic" icon - the name normally describes the thing well enough.

[ghost]

I have two other suggestions here: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/images/a/a4/Building_ruins_generic3.svg https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/images/c/cb/Building_ruins_generic2.svg

You can check the appearance on https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:MeastroGlanz#Icons_I_created

I used 16px grid. At least, I think so.

@kocio-pl @polarbearing

[kocio-pl]

Still not recognizable for me at 14 px.

[ghost]

I created other versions: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/images/7/76/Building_ruins_generic4.svg https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/images/6/62/Building_ruins_generic5.svg https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/images/6/62/Building_ruins_generic6.svg https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/images/5/5d/Building_ruins_generic7.svg

All together on https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:MeastroGlanz#Icons_I_created

Do you have any suggestions of mixing some of the ideas?

[ghost]

I prefer version 3 the most.

Btw. are there any icons, which should be created?

[kocio-pl]

Nice try, but none of them work for me at 14px (32 px would be OK). I was thinking about solid, easy to recognize shape like a simple house as a base.

[PontiacCZ]

I like Building_ruins_generic6.svg... and Building_ruins_generic4.svg as well.

[kocio-pl]

Btw. are there any icons, which should be created?

Sure, you may for example look at #131, #152, #2518, #1870, #958, #2856...

[kocio-pl]

@PontiacCZ Try to look at 14 px version only, because that's the only thing the user will see.

[PontiacCZ]

Yep, that's what I actually did, I compared icons in the "Icon original size" row on the summary page and my Firefox tells me they're 14 px wide.

Well, the more I look at the variants the more I like (Building_ruins_generic6.svg) - the concept of one fallen tower and the other one still standing is pretty clear for me to understand it as ruins.

I am not sure, MastroGlanz, what you mean by version 3 - is it (Building_ruins_generic4.svg)? Pretty nice as well, for me on the 2nd place.

But any of those would be better than none.

BTW kocio-pl, you have mentioned that "one of them work for me at 14px". Which one is it?

[kocio-pl]

I meant "none" - sorry for the typo.

6 is a nice concept, but the details are too small for me, so it looks just like 2 rectangles, with no connection to buildings.

[ghost]

@PontiacCZ Have a look at the post from 4 days ago. There is 2 and 3.

[ghost]

I added two further versions:

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:MeastroGlanz#Icons_I_created

I prefer version: 3, 10, 6, 4, 2 in that order.

[kocio-pl]

For me 8 looks quite promising as a base:

• the window should be bigger
• the top should be wider/bigger
• instead of lying part there should be "ruins" pixels (similar to 1-3 design, but without door entry)

[Tomasz-W]

What about "ruined" museum icon?

[ghost]

I also have a new suggestion.

[Tomasz-W]

@kocio-pl Can you review the proposals?

[kocio-pl]

None of them work for me. I was thinking about something like simple manor/house with decaying one side (just like this: https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues/331#issuecomment-331642349).

[Tomasz-W]

You mean manor icon https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues/744#issuecomment-370141077 with ruined right side, yes? Did I understand correctly?

[kocio-pl]

Yes. The castle icon had two problems - it was too distinctive (while ruins may be very generic and not even really historic) and it has not too regular shape, so it's not easy to see the progression of decay, and it looks just like a tower with something small attached. Otherwise the idea still appeals to me.

[kocio-pl]

I reworked manor icon, but this doesn't have to be any of them - just generic house could be even better.

[Tomasz-W]

simple manor/house with decaying one side

@MaestroGlanz Can you try to make it?

Heres SVG's with manor shapes for a start: https://github.com/kocio-pl/openstreetmap-carto/blob/9cd636602fd4faf7b1546ae4fc091b936106cbca/symbols/manor.svg https://github.com/kocio-pl/openstreetmap-carto/blob/761d4fe24c5dc76f833c103a3611ad8c18083acc/symbols/manor.svg

[ghost]

I added number 12 and 13: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:MeastroGlanz#Icons_I_created

based on the manor icon

[Tomasz-W]

Thanks!

I'm posting preview here: (12) (13)

[kocio-pl]

13 is quite close for me. It has similar problem as a castle - it has doors hole in the middle, so the decay is not that obvious and the right part may look like something added, not the remains. What if the doors are there (halftone could help)?

12 is a clever new idea, but it's not clear for me at 14 px. What about others?

I tend to think that original proposition could work, but the tower should be complete to be recognized at this resolution. The idea was good, but it was not well suited for such a small matrix, it was too subtle and even didn't use all the available width. So my take would be more schematic and with bigger elements (15 looks better for me): 14) 15)

[kocio-pl]

Or something more generic than a destroyed fortress: 16)

[ghost]

Right now, I would settle for @kocio-pl 's 15. We can change it, if we come up with something better. But since there hasn't been something better in a long time yet, I guess it wont come soon.

[Tomasz-W]

Remember, that historic=ruins tag isn't used only for very old buildings like temples, palaces or manors, but also for abandoned factories etc. A destroyed fortress icon may be confusing then. What about more universal icon like a broken square?

[dieterdreist]

sent from a phone

On 1. Jul 2018, at 13:14, Tomasz Wójcik notifications@github.com wrote:

Remember, that historic=ruins tag isn't used only for very old building like temples, palaces or manors, but also for abandoned factories etc

+1, without the ruins subtag or something similar you don’t know what it is (hence shouldn’t be rendered just by that tag alone)

[Tomasz-W]

Fresh icon proposals:

• (building rubble)
• (broken brick)
• (broken building)

[jragusa]

On french and swiss topographic map, abandoned buildings are displayed as building without filling. This is probably IMO a more appropriate way to identify ruins: 1/ we can use icon to describe the former function of the ruin (castle, factory, archaeological site...) 2/ it's more suitable for abandoned houses for which there is no icon 3/ ruins are not necessarily important landmark (sometimes only the basement remains) or at least does not need to be highlighted with an icon 4/ this allows to describe that the building is incomplete (no filling): roof or walls are missing

Example from french map and swiss map

[Tomasz-W]

@jragusa It's not a solution for this issue, because ruins are often mapped as a node in the middle of rubble. We need some icon to solve it.

[Adamant36]

@Tomasz-W, if we are at that point and you want to provide .SVGs of your broken building icons, I would be willing to test them in an attempt to get this moving again.

[Tomasz-W]

It's always nice to see a test rendering, even if an icon is not promising.

Gist link: https://gist.github.com/Tomasz-W/1b20e25696daf714d9593552556916a1

[Adamant36]

Location One

Icon one icon two icon three

Location Two

icon one icon two icon three

[Tomasz-W]

1 or 3. I think it should be in some dark-red colour (like warning), as these places are usually dangerous, darken(@military, 40%) used for landuse=military labels might be an option.

[Adamant36]

Ok. I'll give it a try. I like 1, except not all ruins are buildings. So three at least has the advantage of being more generic.

[ghost]

Since you dont like my suggestions, definitely Number 2. Number 3 is not self explaining, number 1 has particles in it, which is never a good idea on the map.

[ghost]

@Tomasz-W No, I oppose. It should be definitely the colour of sights and archaeological sites, since it is related to them. We might use two icon colours. One for sight type, one for ordinary ruin. But ordinary ruins shouldnt be rendered at all. At least not that way.

[dieterdreist]

sent from a phone

On 18. Sep 2018, at 09:06, MaestroGlanz notifications@github.com wrote:

One for sight type, one for ordinary ruin. But ordinary ruins shouldnt be rendered at all. At least not that way.

according to the wiki, profane ruins (without historic significance) should be tagged with lifecycle tags and not with historic=ruins