Open pkoby opened 5 years ago
Ref https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:leisure=disc_golf_course No wiki page for the subfeatures
Whoops, yeah. This lists subfeatures with taginfo totals: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Disc_golf
It would be a major improvement if just disc golf courses were rendered at this point. Then a lot of the miss-tagging of them with name=disc_golf and other things to get them to render wouldn't be as likely to happen.
The documentation for these tags is still limited and needs improving.
From the proposal: "[disc] golf is usually in a park or wood and only in special cases at a single-use area" - so an area is problematic, but where would a node be placed?
Should disc golf courses be mapped as areas or nodes? What defines the borders of an area used for disc golf?
I'd suggest making a new proposal and discussing it with the Tagging mailing list, then updating the Wiki with more complete information.
The old proposal is from 2011 and has not been updated since 2012.
It would be difficult to develop a good rendering without clear tagging and documentation
OSM Carto shows golf=tee
Are you sure? I think that it shows landcover (correctly or incorrectly) mapped that also matches shape of golf=tee
. (though I am not sure)
Finally, we have icons for leisure=golf_course and leisure=miniature_golf. Could there be a leisure=disc_golf_course icon for polygons or relations of features?
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:leisure%3Ddisc_golf_course has just 381 uses worldwide
Are you sure? I think that it shows landcover
That's probably true. I didn't investigate it too far. Usually tees are surrounded by fairway, which I guess uses the same rendering by landcover, so it's hard to tell.
"has just 381 uses worldwide"
That's probably because of all the miss tagging. It doesn't seem to be supported in iD editor either. Unless I missed it. @pkoby, you might want to see if iD and JOSM will support a preset for it if they don't already, do some re-tagging of the things that are miss-tagged, and then come back to this once all that's done. I'm more then willing to do some tag fixing for it myself once iD has support for it if you want to @ me when it does.
I am closing this for now because the tag is still rare and the wiki documentation needs improving, as mentioned above. This issue can be reopened if those change.
Reopening for discussion related to PR #4557
@jdmonin do you have new comments about these tags?
Thanks @jeisenbe for reopening the discussion.
Mapping of these features has grown since the 2019 analysis, and last week iD released presets for disc golf courses, holes and baskets.
The wiki pages are also more specific now:
So, I think it's ready for rendering.
Here's current usage data; from my notes, within the last week disc_golf
key usage has grown by 1%.
Feature | Total | Nodes | Ways | Relations |
---|---|---|---|---|
disc_golf key | 10094 | 6337 | 3753 | 4 |
sport=disc_golf | 2589 | 1458 | 1062 | 69 |
leisure=disc_golf_course | 1436 | 946 | 430 | 60 |
(disc_golf
values include 3364 holes, 3236 tees, 3096 baskets.)
I've submitted PR #4557, which renders those new presets.
I do need to add a commit there to also render areas and POIs for sport=disc_golf
courses.
Since i am not familiar with the sport in question:
We render golf course in the differentiated way we do because they are:
Can you explain if and to what extent the same applies for disc golf?
My (evidently superficial) impression is that this is more like other (speciality) sports and less like golf and disc golf courses are mostly secondary uses of public spaces like parks and that and therefore would better be served by being addressed as part of #844.
My (evidently superficial) impression is that this is more like other (speciality) sports and less like golf and disc golf courses are mostly secondary uses of public spaces like parks
I can only speak to the disc golf courses in my area, but as far as I know they are all in separate areas then parks/public wilderness. Although in most cases they are next to them. Generally disc golf frisbees are heavier and denser then normal ones since they are meant to be thrown for much further distances. So tossing them around where kids are playing or people are lounging around wouldn't be great. I'm sure there are exceptions, but in cases where they are inside parks no one is randomly wondering around the course unless they are playing anymore then someone would be doing so inside a skate park that's located in/at one.
The courses near me (North America) make use of the boundaries and underused areas of large parks: Within their forested areas, or large grassy sections which aren't used for other sports or picnics.
The course I rendered in PR #4557's screenshots is typical for my area. Others are entirely in the woods within parks.
I think it's a very similar situation to golf courses, and worthy of differentiated rendering. Courses cover a lot of area, so mapping the course as a large pitch (as in #844) seems awkward. For courses in the woods, the pitch would also overlap that landcover. So my PR renders the details of each hole in the course, at higher zoom levels only to avoid clutter.
Answering point by point:
disc_golf=*
shows 3364 holes, 3236 tees, 3096 baskets currently mappedAnswering point by point:
Trying to follow your analysis - i can see the exact opposite on most points:
Examples:
https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/12583505 https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/10224469 https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/2552970 https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/227188730 https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/993323496 https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/8906895289 https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/8569717841 https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/1341409363
For balance also some samples from the US:
https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/13828972 https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/225827585 https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/885616922 https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/200456347 https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/278098436 https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/870835645 https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/3192369977
I could only find very few cases in OSM in either the US or Europe of disc golf courses tagged this way that are limited access and single purpose use areas like golf courses typically are.
lots of public spaces where the disc golf features overlap with normal general purpose infrastructure. I could only find very few cases in OSM in either the US or Europe of disc golf courses tagged this way that are limited access and single purpose use areas like golf courses typically are.
I'm not really sure how the access thing is relevant. They aren't typically going to be mapped like golf courses are because they aren't usually, if ever, on private property or ran by businesses. Which is why I brought up the analogy of skate parks. Maybe a better one would be baseball or soccer fields. A lot of times both overlap, and are in "normal general purpose infrastructure", but they are still sport pitches and both are rendered. Especially soccer fields. A lot of them are just randomly placed in open grassy areas of parks that anyone can wonder through. In the case of disc golf courses there is never an instance where they are going to be fenced off, completely separate areas from anything else because like I said disc golf isn't a business endeavor. Their mainly created by the public on public land.
That doesn't mean they are completely free range areas that have no defined boundaries or whatever though. Like in a few of your examples the pitches Etc. Etc. are extremely well defined areas IRL and can be seen in the satellite images. It's not like there's just a place where someone throws the frisbee, a net at the end, and a bunch of children randomly playing hopscotch in between the two or whatever.
From what I can see:
On balance I think the iD presets and wiki are enough to guide mappers to tag consistently, and there's enough good usage out there already to make it worth rendering.
In the Pacific Northwest of the USA (Oregon, Washington and Idaho), there are 50 leisure=disc_golf_course
mapped, but most are only a node or a small area with no details.
Only 4 areas have mapping of the linear ways for the disc_golf=hole
, in addition to an area:
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/978880861#map=18/43.88096/-121.43151
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/605368469#map=17/47.70137/-122.08752 - in this case each hole starts off of another, which creates strange acute angles.
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/545157227#map=17/46.98192/-123.82140
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/545157227#map=18/46.98236/-123.82130 - here the area is currently tagged as leisure=pitch
and the holes curve, unusually.
Nodes for the baskets/tees but no holes: https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/1037240744#map=17/47.38036/-122.04431
There is one area with several ways for disc_golf=hole
but no leisure=disc_golf_course
:
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/498905755#map=16/44.7912/-117.8364
In one other place case there were only nodes mapped for tees or baskets without the area: https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/8694609950#map=16/47.7496/-122.208
So the vast majority do not include details, and in those that do it will often be confusing to render a way that represents the disc_golf=hole
way, because it will not be clear in the context what it means.
Adding an icon is needed for showing a disc golf on the map to people. Today the mapper is taking time to map a disc golf course, but nothing is shown on the map. 1st, it can be frustrating 2nd, the goal to inform is not achieved, because nothing happens on the map.
I think the basket used in the editor is enough. Many discs manufacturers are using this basket on their main banner, used too on flyers about events, etc. Do this basket is used for another sport ?
Thx for update, it will be welcome ;)
Finally, we have icons for leisure=golf_course and leisure=miniature_golf. Could there be a leisure=disc_golf_course icon for polygons or relations of features?
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:leisure%3Ddisc_golf_course has just 381 uses worldwide
Today, we are near 1800 https://taghistory.raifer.tech/#***/leisure/disc_golf_course May be more in future if mappers see it rendered on the map ;)
I built a protoype of some overpass query discgolf map Planet Discgolf
while doing it and mapping various courses I am not quite sure if the current scheme is perfect for rendering holes yes. For example because there are courses with multiple "layouts" ( different teepads for different skill levels )
That would better be discussed in a topic on openstreetmap forums
But as for rendering on openstreetmap I think.
a: sport=disc_golf should be shown as a POI like it is already done in osmand for example ( or my prototype ) b: disc_golf=basket and disc_golf=tee should be rendered as they are clearly physical objects and I don't see a change about these features for the problems I encountered
@derEremit: You mean leisure=disc_golf_course instead of sport=disc_golf, don't you? (see Key:sport)
osmand uses sport=disc_golf
as far as I see it on my map it is the Point that should be close to a parking place ( and maybe a infoboard ) so if you use osmand to filter the poi and then drive to it the routing is to the next possible parking
leisure=disc_golf_course in my opinion should be used to group holes to a course
i just found a recent topic which should probably be used for the discussion about that osm community
(Non-disc) Golf has different tee locations for different skill levels, too. That doesn't stop it from being rendered.
I would like to add here as well, i expanded the https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:leisure%3Ddisc_golf_course site quite a bit. I commented in the community-thread as well.
I hope with this information more correctly mapped courses will get added or existing ones get updated. If thats consistent then, it might be easier to make decision on what gets rendered. The easy way currently would be to render just a leisure=disc_golf_course
as its (hopefully) simply a node on the first point or a relation including every hole - there the icon should be in the middle in my opinion.
It should be discussed what should be included or excluded, but for now this would be enough. I personally don't think every feature needs to be rendered (a special map like https://planetdg.com/?dg should cover that) but the course itself should be on the map with the name.
osmand uses sport=disc_golf
as far as I see it on my map it is the Point that should be close to a parking place ( and maybe a infoboard ) so if you use osmand to filter the poi and then drive to it the routing is to the next possible parking
leisure=disc_golf_course in my opinion should be used to group holes to a course
i just found a recent topic which should probably be used for the discussion about that osm community
Thx for this map ! But I think you "only" use POI with "leisure=disc_golf_course" ? Because I see some courses not shown on your map... may be useful to use the area too ? I've mapped some courses with area tool ;)
Sorry to use this thread to speak about another thing.
August 2024, no icon on the map on OSM ?
Happy to see OsmAnd on Android is showing an icon With may be this svg file... ? https://github.com/osmandapp/OsmAnd-resources/blob/master/icons/svg/sport/disc_golf.svg
From the node (like https://planetdg.com/?dg ) And from an area (2nd screenshot)
Hi, I have recently mapped a few Disc Golf courses and was disappointed to see them not render at least the hole shot (like golf added) and the sport area tags. I agree with all the comments here that having a recognized tagging schema displayed in carto would help enforce conformity to the schema. Also in my, albeit limited, mapping experience, many of these sites are under tree canopy so having the hole shot lines rendered would really help advertise the availability of the sport course on the map.
Would love to see this supported in the next version of carto. Thanks.
To add to this discussion, Since the previous stats of usage were published, TagInfo currently has the total use of primary key:disc_golf at 22,520 with hole, tee, and basket being each used over 7,000 times.
About six months ago a style was created for JOSM to support mapping disc_golf_course features: https://josm.openstreetmap.de/wiki/Styles/DiscGolfCourse
Currently, no disc_golf features are rendered, but I think they could be added to the map similarly to golf features, probably using the same code but adding a query for
disc_golf=*
.At this time, OSM Carto shows
golf=tee
, but notgolf=hole
orgolf=pin
.disc_golf=tee
could be rendered the same asgolf=tee
(light green rectangle). Ideally, then, there could be some rendering ofdisc_golf=basket
, as this is a fixed point, unlike thegolf=pin
which moves around the green. The basket could be a new point icon, or perhaps a leisure-green dot with basket number?Finally, we have icons for
leisure=golf_course
andleisure=miniature_golf
. Could there be aleisure=disc_golf_course
icon for polygons or relations of features?There is not a huge number of any single
disc_golf=*
feature, but it looks like there are about 1450 holes (in 380 courses) of disc golf out there: https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/disc_golf#values