Drop amenity=telephone from z17

[Prince-Kassad]

Split from #1745

The amount of public telephones is rapidly decreasing both in developed and developing countries (not so much in OSM, unfortunately, because we can't keep up with the deconstruction of public telephones). Where public telephones still exist, they're usually not used for their telephone feature. For example, in Germany, public telephones in larger cities also function as a wifi hotspot, and most people will use the telephone for the wifi hotspot rather than its phone feature. Public telephones in small villages, where they still exist, are simple models that cannot be used for anything other than emergency calls.

See an example where current amenity=telephone clutters the map:

https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=17/50.13321/8.91777&layers=N

It's debatable at which zoom level it is appropriate to render public telephones. I personally think z19 is too late (and think emergency=phone should be pushed back up to z18 for the same reason), but z17 is definitely too early, as you can see from the provided link.

[imagico]

I don't think the idea of hiding the rendering of phones at lower zoom levels because there are many of these mapped which do not exist any more is a good approach.

In general my opinion on this is already stated in https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/pull/1884#issuecomment-144378212 - if the map is too full at z17 my approach would be to move other things to higher zoom levels like shops, restaurants etc. Public phones as a possibility to call for help in a case of emergency and as one of the few anonymous communication possibilities that exists in many countries today are IMO an important infrastructure, especially if they become more rare these days.

[kocio-pl]

Yet this is not an emergency map, it's a general map (if it was, I believe #3629 should be very visible). Also relying on importance as a primary feature for such general thing as zoom levels is very subjective and makes it very impossible to create any order of objects.

[Adamant36]

Like 67 percent of the worlds population has cell phones now. So, I think an argument could be made that are mostly sorta historical artifacts at this point. Even in places where they are available I doubt they get used that much. Except for the anonymous reasons you state, but id guess even that is largely done on a cell phone now.

Personally, I would put them in the same category as things like changing tables (except less so). Something important to some people, that would be good on a specialized map, but probably not great for a general map at this point. This issue isn't even about getting rid of them completely either.

Btw, its also worth mentioning that mapping of pay phones has pretty much bottomed out and seems to be declining since mid 2018. Plus, who knows how many of those are actually even around or usable anymore. IMO you could almost remove rendering of them completely and it probably wouldn't matter, but also rendering them lower is fine also.

[kennykb]

On Mon, Jan 13, 2020 at 2:38 AM Adamant36 notifications@github.com wrote:

Like 67 percent of the worlds population has cell phones now. So, I think an argument could be made that are mostly sorta historical artifacts at this point. Even in places where they are available I doubt they get used that much. Except for the anonymous reasons you state, but id guess even that is largely done on a cell phone now

Because of the extensive wilderness areas, a lot of the Adirondack Park in New York is without cell service (nowhere lawful to erect a tower). While it's getting commoner for businesses to install microcells, so you'll often be in range of one when you're in one of the villages, public phones are still very much in use in places there, and probably will be until world+dog are all carrying satellite phones.

Interstate 87 through that area has emergency call boxes every two miles through a 54-mile (87 km) 'dead zone' from just north of Warrensburg through the High Peaks. If memory serves, they use point-to-point VHF radio links to communicate with the state police, and are solar-powered. (They had been removed for some years, but were restored after a fatal accident in 2007, when a motorist who was stranded in a snowstorm froze to death after being unable to summon aid.) There are signs in Keeseville and Schroon Lake warning that there is no cell service, that there are call boxes at regular intervals, and that pay phones are available at the Schroon Lake, High Peaks, Lincoln Pond, and Lewis rest areas.

I suspect that, as you say, they don't get used much - because most people drive the length of Interstate 87 without incident. Still, the pay phones and call boxes are an emergency lifeline!

Don't assume that the whole world is like the urban areas of developed countries.

[Prince-Kassad]

Note that this PR is not about emergency=phone, that was moved to z19 in #2993.

[kennykb]

On Mon, Jan 13, 2020 at 10:59 AM Prince-Kassad notifications@github.com wrote:

Note that this PR is not about emergency=phone, that was moved to z19 in #2993.

OK, but what about the regular old pay phones that I mentioned in the earlier post?

(I'll stay away from zoom levels. Out in the country, the only way to see a lot of POI's is to zoom to a level where all context is lost, but I don't yet have a sound approach to fixing that without introducing unmanageable clutter in the cities.) -- 73 de ke9tv/2, Kevin

[imagico]

Just for clarification - #2993 was merged without consensus - as can be seen already in #1884.