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gregsaun / bear_extruder_and_x_axis

An improved extruder and X axis for Prusa i3 printers
GNU General Public License v3.0
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Possible part cooling design? #20

Closed trevjonez closed 5 years ago

trevjonez commented 6 years ago

Looks like you are slated to do a part cooling shroud.

Might I suggest this design as an option? https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3063554

it will keep the fan vertical thus not having an issue with the wear and tear that the r3 angle might induce. And the design seems to be decently tested for performance already.

I loaded it up and compared with the mk3 parts and it looks like shifting the fan and shroud forward about 1.6-2mm gives it adequate clearance around the pinda.(2mm shown in image)

image

robrps commented 6 years ago

That's mine :) I do plan on doing a Bear version once I've assembled the 0.5alpha to see what's what. I'm quite slow thanks to my 7 mouth old daughter though... Mostly done in Fusion if anyone want the file.

gregsaun commented 6 years ago

Oh nice to have you here! Happy you are interested in my Bear extruder :-) . I would appreciate to have the F360 file to adapt he place for the PINDA, would you prefer to send me this in private? Be sure that if I use your shroud (or a remix of it) I will add appropriate credits and license!

robrps commented 6 years ago

I've had your Full Bear on my MK3 since RatRigs first sold the kit its a great design 👍 I'll message you on Thingiverse later on today with the file.

gregsaun commented 6 years ago

Wow impressive Rob. Hope you like it :-) . Got your message thanks!

trevjonez commented 6 years ago

I used three washers that are ~0.5..0.55mm thick per fan screw to get everything on nice and go figure it looks just like the above image. Been too lazy to draw up a fan shaped shim to print out as I figure even that would hopefully be a temporary solution.

matthew-humphrey commented 6 years ago

I've been trying this nozzle out as well. I tried it both with no spacer washers, and with 3 spacer washers each on the two print fan mounting screws and the nozzle mounting screws. So far my results have been a bit better than with the stock Prusa R2 nozzle. It actually does seem to just barely fit w/o the spacer washers, but it's very close and possibly touching the PINDA, so I decided to insert them.

matthew-humphrey commented 6 years ago

I designed a spacer. I'll post a link once I have a chance to print it and test it out.

robrps commented 6 years ago

If you are interesting trying out a Bear Extruder (v0.5a) specific version, then you can - https://www.dropbox.com/s/poudc3owi7r05y9/Initial%20Bear%20duct.zip?dl=0 It's not finished yet, but it's working as intended.

ufoDziner commented 6 years ago

@robrps I'm currently using your duct on my 3 Bear extruders with great success. Super excited to try out the Bear specific version. I'll see if I can get them printing tomorrow.

I would really like the F360 files when you have it complete. Thanks!

trevjonez commented 6 years ago

I finally made a shim yesterday. it is a quick and dirty copy face from the front of the extruder body. but works. honestly I was considering doing something similar in tpu just so I could see if it quites the fan down. bear fan shim.stl.txt rename without txt before using

printed face down so the nice smooth side is facing out. image

matthew-humphrey commented 6 years ago

Interesting. This is the spacer that I made. Spacer.stl.txt

@robrps - I tried this latest version and it is not even remotely close to fitting on my extruder. @ufoDziner are you using his version from the dropbox share, or the one that was posted to Thingiverse?

Pathogenius commented 6 years ago

I'll just forward this little known remix of the R3 shroud, which, if you look closely, you can see the air has less of a fight to get through, and also, less air is allowed out the first exit holes, and is redistributed deeper.

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3078174

matthew-humphrey commented 6 years ago

I don't like the R3 fan position. With those cheap fans, it's going to cause premature bearing wear and eventual fan failure. What I like about @robrps design is that it works great with the original fan position (assuming you use the spacer, or some washers). I'd really like to see an update of it that doesn't require the spacer.

matthew-humphrey commented 6 years ago

Here's a version with the Bear logo cutout to save a little plastic (good idea, @trevjonez ) Spacer.zip

robrps commented 6 years ago

Yeah, my bear duct is a little too tight at the moment - it doesn’t require screws to hold it in place! It also blows a little too much on the block, so without a sock it can cause issues. I’m starting that design again but parametrically so adjustments can be made using parameters. Just getting to grips with Fusion360’s way of doing things. I’m more used to NX but I want others to be able to make changes.

matthew-humphrey commented 6 years ago

@robrps, It looked like the issue was the mount hole was lowered too much. I'm using your previous design with my spacer now and it's working well. BTW, @gregsaun has been making some changes to the extruder in the dev branch, mostly to improve hotend cooling, so you may want to check to make sure there aren't any fitment issues with the new design.

ufoDziner commented 6 years ago

@matthew-humphrey I'm using the dropbox version. It is very close tolerance as @robrps stated, but seems to be working okay. I mount the shroud to the extruder first, then add the fan after. Makes fitting it much easier. First pic is a normal Bear extruder, second is with my Volcano remix.

img_20181027_095248

img_20181027_095256

matthew-humphrey commented 6 years ago

Thanks, @ufoDziner - much appreciated! Ok, I see what it is. There's a lip that needs to go behind the extruder cover. Following your advice, I put the fan shroud on first, saw that, and now it's all together. Looking forward to trying it out!

ufoDziner commented 6 years ago

@matthew-humphrey Just in case you didn't notice this; part of this shroud goes on the inside of the extruder cover. It's not like other shrouds. The inner flange goes inside, then the screw mounting flange goes on the other side of the wall.

matthew-humphrey commented 6 years ago

@ufoDziner - Yes, that was exactly the issue. Thanks again.

robrps commented 6 years ago

I've done an update to my bear cooling duct. If you are feeling brave, you can download from the links below. I've finished it during my lunch break at work (Shhhhhhh!!) so I've not been able to print or test as yet. There are 2 version, one similar to the last, the other has a staggered exits at the side.... might be worse! Print with 3 perimeters and a print width of 0.45.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/u23mmxfw3rlxaw5/Bear%20Part%20Cooling%20-%20Non-Staggered.stl?dl=0 and https://www.dropbox.com/s/2a102sx6pk2locn/Bear%20Part%20Cooling%20-%20Staggered.stl?dl=0

If I can get the Fusion exporting working I'll link the file. But it's a distributed design so its not letting me. but the angle, exit width, stagger and wall thickness are all adjustable parameters.

trevjonez commented 6 years ago

I just got the first bear one on and fit and function has been great. I'll give these a spin. only thing I wonder is if we can do anything more to have the air flow angled more downward towards the part/bed?

edit: actually I am probably wrong in thinking the downward angle is not enough. I think physical perception was just off. looking at these latest STL's in slicer layer by later makes it easy to see how much downward angle is being put in already.

matthew-humphrey commented 6 years ago

@robrps - @gregsaun shared with me a technique to get the Fusion 360 export working when it gives you that error about the distributed design. From Gregoire:

  1. Within Fusion 360, click on top of your project (note project, not design - this is in the pane on the left hand side of the screen, at the very top). This will open the project in a web browser.
  2. Navigate to your model, and then click the Export icon.
  3. Choose the F360 format.
  4. In a few minutes, F360 will send you an email with a link you can use to download the exported design (in a .f3z file).
robrps commented 6 years ago

Thanks @matthew-humphrey although I've now realised that by bringing in the whole of Greg's Bear Extruder and X-Axis means that it now is going to export it all as well!...Oh well, next iteration I'll just use the Extruder Cover file or create non associative reference/skeleton geometry. Link to the file below.

Having just printed these, they are not quite ready for use - The above 2 STLs are a little too close to the PINDA, plus the little tab cut out is needed, but currently missing (along with the Bear text and strengthening ribs.)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/p5dttqnfxyzx4j9/Alternative%20Part%20Cooling%20Duct2.f3z?dl=0

matthew-humphrey commented 6 years ago

@robrps, Gregoire has been making some changes to the Pinda position recently. I think in the last iteration he moved it back, but you might want to check before you make any more updates.

BTW, you guys have any tips on printing this in ABS? I bet some bad overhang drooping in the openings where the air comes out.

robrps commented 6 years ago

@matthew-humphrey The probe position is not an issue, because it's a parametric design it's trivial to adjust. Normally I print these parts with the custom supports, but they are usual the last thing I create. The exits are now straight and not curved, so you'll need to adjust your bridge settings or use supports from the build plate, or custom supports with the new Slic3rPE.

ufoDziner commented 6 years ago

@robrps So, would you consider this ready to test? I can print a few more of them for testing. Thanks!

trevjonez commented 6 years ago

I have the non staggered version on mine for 24 hours or more now. so far so good. I actually like it better without the BEAR text on the front. I don't have the patience to drop nozzle size and speed to get the text as nice and crisp as I would want it.

robrps commented 6 years ago

So the staggered version made no difference that I could see from the non staggered version. So it's probably only useful to clear any dramatic Pinda position design changes in future versions of the Bear Extruder.

I made some tweaks to the model. https://a360.co/2OX0eKC Fusion360 shared link so you can download the F3Z file. It annoyingly still wants to add all of the CAD for the extruder and X-Axis. https://www.dropbox.com/s/rn3jdqvdpxnorqo/Bear%20Duct%20V3.zip?dl=0 for the STL (including a no text version for @trevjonez !)

@ufoDziner This should be the last design change until the next version of the extruder gets released. Unless something is broken/not working of course!

@gregsaun please feel free to use any or none of this model, the dependences on your parts means it's probably easier if it were put into your Fusion360 design if you wanted to use it for your Bear Extruder.

trevjonez commented 6 years ago

@robrps setting up the latest for print now 👍 such good community here.

If ever I get an mmu2 I intend to print one where the lettering is a different color. the contrast would be so so nice

ufoDziner commented 6 years ago

Wow! I thought the old version was a tight fit. There is no way that any air is leaking around where the fan goes down into the shroud. My only real issue with the old one was that it came very close to touching the parts. We'll see how this one is. Thanks again @robrps!

trevjonez commented 6 years ago

Not as straight as I wanted but not too bad for a first attempt at hand placing. image

ufoDziner commented 6 years ago

Mine are done as well! Printed in ABS+.

img_20181031_215638 img_20181031_221837 img_20181031_221844

matthew-humphrey commented 6 years ago

@robrps - FYI, your design does not fit the latest iteration of the Bear extruder in the Dev branch. I'm attaching a screenshot of the Fusion 360 interference check between the cooling duct and the extruder cover. interference

robrps commented 6 years ago

That looks like an easy fix, but I'll wait until the extruder cover design is fixed before adjusting. I don't have a lot of free time at the moment.

matthew-humphrey commented 6 years ago

I did a little surgery on the part with an exacto knife, and got it to fit. However, this iteration of the nozzle/extruder is not performing as well for me as even the Prusa B2 nozzle. The early iteration that required the spacer was doing quite well, but not this one.

EDIT: Not sure why I was seeing different results before, but I did a Prusa Silver PLA print with this fan duct yesterday and the results were so different that the print came out a matte color instead of the usual shiny. So clearly it's putting a significantly different airflow on the part.

ufoDziner commented 6 years ago

@robrps Looks like the the extruder is done for now. Any chance that you could have a look at the interference? Thanks!

robrps commented 6 years ago

edit: see below

robrps commented 6 years ago

@ufoDziner Untested and unprinted, adjusted for the the 0.6 Bear Extruder. @matthew-humphrey I've angle down the exits - can you let me know if that helps, if not I'll put them back (assuming you've printed the 0.6 bear)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/bmjvias6fifalkm/RPS_Bear%20V0.6%20Extruder%20Part%20Cooling__BETA.zip?dl=0

ufoDziner commented 6 years ago

Thanks @robrps! I'm printing it now. Hoping to have the 0.6 parts installed tonight/tomorrow. I'll report back.

matthew-humphrey commented 6 years ago

Thanks, @robrps - I am working on the 0.6 upgrade as well, and will give this a try and report back.

ufoDziner commented 6 years ago

Fits like a champ!!

img_20181121_153533

matthew-humphrey commented 6 years ago

Nice! Tried a print with it?

ufoDziner commented 6 years ago

Yep. Works well. I don't see any difference, but I don't have a "trained eye" either.

SHolman77 commented 6 years ago

@robrps I was happy to find your shroud as the Prusa I3 MK2.5 shroud does not fit on the Bear Extruder, so needed a new one) Printed and using your part cooling shroud! It was printed in PETG but have some problems of the fins being very weak. One fin broke while trying to install the shroud (the fan sits very tight on it). Don't know if it will effect the cooling but will print another one. Question though: There is another file with the shroud called support, how is that one used?

robrps commented 6 years ago

@Rorrim77 You might not be printing hot enough, or are using too much fan for PETG. The ones I've printed in PETG take a reasonable amount of force before breaking.

The support file is not strictly needed, but in Slic3r, load the duct stl as normal, double click on the part in the build tray, then click on load part in the window that pops up and bring in the support stl.

SHolman77 commented 6 years ago

@robrps It might be too much cooling as I am already printing it at max temp (250 degrees) I will try with less or no cooling hopefully the layer adhesion will be better that way. Thank you for explaining the support bit. I don't think I really need the support as the print came out perfectly with no supports, but I am going to print one with the support just as an experiment 👍 Keep up the good work.

SHolman77 commented 6 years ago

It was too much cooling, turned off the part cooling fan when it reached the fins. The are strong and won't break that easily anymore.

trevjonez commented 6 years ago

@robrps hey have you ever tried to design the shroud such that it mounts to the fan rather than the extruder? I have been running a bit longer nozzle than what the e3d profile is and usually end up fighting alignment anyway since the shroud is typically only attached by one screw. was thinking it would be super nice to have the shroud on the fan . then mount the fan to the extruder via an adjustable rail or similar so that it could be easily removed or adjusted.

WarrenSchultz commented 5 years ago

@robrps I want to make sure I'm not having a bit of end-user error. :) Is the F3Z file linked above the older version, while the beta isn't posted in Fusion format yet?