jttower
commented
1 year ago I think this proposal will cause more problems than it's trying to solve. Considering that the purpose of Reference questions is to distinguish between exact duplicate words or phrases from the material, I think changing the order of the question will make the questions harder to answer, especially at the Internationals level. Assuming quizzers will not wait for the entire question to be read, they will be missing the verse and therefore will have to guess on both the answer and the verse. At least when a quizzer pre-jumps on current REF questions they have a chance at getting the correct answer because they know the verse. And if they know how to properly sequence the verse, they are usually able to get the correct question.
Consider these examples: Q: Accdg to Acts 7:12, what visit? A: Their first visit Q. Accdg to Acts 7:13, what visit? A: Their second visit The way the questions are currently read, the quizzers who normally pre-jump will do so after the verse is given, in which case they are able to distinguish what the answer is, and therefore what the question is.
If the questions are read in your proposed way, they would be: Q: What visit, accdg to Acts 7:12? (or 7:13) In this case, if a quizzer even attempts to jump before the very end of the question, they will have to guess at not only the reference but also the answer. They could jump after "what visit" and take their 50/50 chance. And if there are more than 2 instances of a question in the material (there often are), then the quizzer has even a lesser chance of getting it correct. So instead of the current situation where only SOME Reference questions are 50/50s, this would essentially make ALL of them 50/50s, or even worse.
Yes, studying REF questions is a different level of competition, especially at Internationals. Yes, it can be difficult to learn how to do it correctly. I remember the first time I saw Internationals quizzers essentially quoting the verse backwards, in specific chunks, to arrive at the correct question. It's amazing! It's a very specific, practiced skill and no, not everyone will be able to master it, but I don't think that means we should get rid of the question type or change how they are worded.
kclimenhaga
RedReagan
levikoral
Proposed Change to Chapter Verse Reference (1.2.2.3.3) and Chapter Reference (1.2.2.3.4)
Current Language (1.2.2.3.3): The question text should be in the form: According to [book name], chapter [chapter number], verse [verse number], [remainder of question text] Proposed Language (1.2.2.3.3): The question text should be in the form: [question text], according to [book name], chapter [chapter number], verse [verse number]
Current Language (1.2.2.3.4) The question text should be in the form: According to [book name], chapter [chapter number], [remainder of question text] Proposed Language (1.2.2.3.4) The question text should be in the form: [question text], according to [book name], chapter [chapter number]
Rationale: Fronting the question in CVRs especially (and also CRs) would eliminate a number of issues that are problematic with this question type, while also retaining the mastery of the text needed to be successful with it.
The first problem eliminated by fronting the question in CVRs is the problem of the quizzer determining the correct question from the verse. Under the current CVR process, a quizzer can have achieved word-perfect mastery of the material and have it referenced and still err on a CVR by giving the wrong question. The secondary skill of narrowing down the question to the right one is the most difficult quizzing skill to learn, and even if a quizzer masters this, it is sometimes still impossible to do (e.g. 50-50 question scenarios). First, I would say that this secondary skill of little to no value when compared to the value of knowing the text itself well enough to succeed as a CVR specialist. However, without having this secondary skill, a quizzer can know the material extremely well and still be unable to succeed at this question type. I spoke with the parent of an International quizzer at this year’s IBQ whose child has the material referenced and is so discouraged and afraid to attempt references because of not having this skill – so discouraged that the quizzer said he doesn’t want to do references next year. My brothers and sisters, this should not be! I have a quizzer on my District team in that same boat who would have had 3-4 more correct answers on reference questions in our first day at Internationals were it not for missing them on giving the question.
Secondly, not only does our current process present an outside-of-the-text-of-Scripture difficulty for the quizzers, but it also is very difficult and confusing for quizmasters to adjudicate in cases where the quizzer does not give the question exactly as written. I have never heard anyone give a clear and concise explanation of how a quizzer could be called correct on a CVR (according to our current rulebook) when they give something other than the exact question (and I don’t understand it myself from reading it) – except in one extremely narrow circumstance (like when the actual question is three words, but the addition of one word from the text could still be a valid CVR).
Fronting the question eliminates both of these problems, since the question would be known before the reference is given. Thus, the only missing information at the International-level jump point would be at the completely objective level of the verse number itself. And this has benefits as well in terms of material knowledge (see below).
A third problem that fronting the question lessens (and one that also encourages material knowledge) is the problem of guessing the correct verse number when a quizzer jumps at an ambiguous point in the reference. Whereas in the current process, a jump on “twenty…” or “thirty…” may yield up to ten different options, fronting the question greatly eliminates the number of options for the verse number in a given chapter, making it less likely that a question is answered incorrectly as a result of guessing the wrong verse. And, for the quizzer who knows the material really well, when they hear the question, they can be narrowing down the verse options in their mind as the quizmaster is saying “According to…” so that by the time the quizmaster gets to the verse number they may have it narrowed down to the verse possibilities for that question from the text. This has a two-fold benefit. First, it causes the quizzer to be thinking through the text of Scripture while the question is being asked rather than thinking about the number of verses in a given chapter, so it put the emphasis of the question type and the jumping more on the text of Scripture than the current process. Second, it encourages the quizzer to know the material well enough to be able to think through the possibilities of where in the chapter the question could be coming from in order to determine the correct verse when they have jumped at an ambiguous point in the verse number.
An additional benefit that I see to this at the International level is that it makes CVR (and CR) questions more encouraging and accessible. Not only does it benefit all levels of reference specialists (new and old) at Internationals because it eliminates secondary question-determining skill and a great deal of the verse number guessing, but it also makes it possible for non-reference International quizzers to have a shot at getting jumps on CVR questions and getting them right. Currently, the non-reference International quizzers are locked out of these questions, because you have to jump on the verse number without knowing the question and then be able to recall the text based solely on the reference system (the reference system which is not inspired Scripture, just saying). Fronting the question still requires a quizzer to get the verse number right in order to get the answer right and to know what the content of that verse is, but it also narrows down the number of verse possibilities before the jump point, since a given CVR might only be able to be asked in two or three places in a given chapter. This opens the door for quizzers who know the material to the level of word-perfection but who do not have it referenced to have a shot at getting the jump on these questions and getting them right. Access to a greater percentage of questions for the non-reference quizzer increases the motivation to know the material better so they can possibly pick up a correct answer on a CVR, and greater competition for those reference questions raises the bar for reference specialists to know the material better as well in order to keep that competitive edge. The fruit, I believe, is a win-win for quizzers studying the material. Also, I think it makes the competition itself more fun to have more quizzers able to go after more questions.
Benefit at the District and local levels: This proposed rules change also has the added benefit of making quizzing more understandable for spectators and “outsiders” checking out Bible Quizzing (i.e. prospective Bible Quizzers, Coaches, and Quizzing Advocates – like pastors), since they would get to hear the whole question get asked on CR and CVR questions and not be confused by the question-discerning process nor discouraged from involvement, wondering why the kid who basically quoted the verse correctly was called incorrect.
Approving this proposed rules change would necessitate amending the language of 1.2.2.3 concerning the quizmaster prompt – “What is your question” – to “What is your reference” if there were a pre-jump and a few other changes, but those changes would be pretty straightforward and I think would greatly simplify this section of the rulebook.