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hacks-guide / Guide_3DS

A complete guide to 3DS custom firmware, from stock to boot9strap.
https://3ds.hacks.guide/
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Ultimate method cleanup because MSET9 #2393

Closed Gruetzig closed 9 months ago

Gruetzig commented 10 months ago
lilyuwuu commented 10 months ago

shouldn't we just have it only be table if our routing is this simple now

Gruetzig commented 10 months ago

Its quite fancy still and we can prevent people from misreading 11 as 1

lifehackerhansol commented 10 months ago

Can we keep browserhax and safecerthax

I understand nuking Mii mining et al but I can't think of a good argument as to why we remove those two

Gruetzig commented 10 months ago

internet access, its browserhax, safecerthax uses safe mode, whats your problem with mset9 exactly?

lifehackerhansol commented 10 months ago

I'm thinking difficulty level here. Yes, MSET9 is easy enough now, but also browserhax/safecerthax is ridiculously easy to do. Hell, when I brought these back, it was because Seedminer was annoying, and this was back when BB3 was actually functional.

I can see not using safecerthax with safe mode and all, but browserhax is still pretty much a one click hack. If that's not a good enough reason, then sure, I guess.

Gruetzig commented 10 months ago

if there was no proxy setup and no odd shenanigans on japanese new model 3ds consoles, sure id agree with one click hack, but currently it really isnt

lilyuwuu commented 10 months ago

I'm also of the opinion that keeping browserhax and safecerthax would probably be better for now since those are easier to troubleshoot. What I specifically dislike about menuhax/kartminer/super-skaterhax is that a lot of our troubleshooting effectively amounts to throwing things at the problem until it gets fixed, which doesn't happen as much with ssloth browser or safecerthax

Also if someone doesn't have internet access i feel like they're gonna have bigger problems than not being able to do these methods

Gruetzig commented 10 months ago

You really want people to set a custom proxy huh? Yes, SSLoth-Browser and safecerthax seem relatively stable (maybe because you dont see the method being used a lot in assistance), but MSET9 isn't worse, right? I really dont like that a proxy has to be set. And theres nothing that speaks against it, its not like removing it from the guide eliminates the methods forever, for the niche niche cases we can direct people to the wiki, MSET9 is just better... :((.

Of course a dead WIFI chip is a rarity, and incompatible routers (cough cough 5g) too, that wasn't my main point, but MSET9 is offline, which even if only slightly still makes a difference.

What makes it better than MSET9 that deserves it to stay on the guide?

lifehackerhansol commented 10 months ago

There is now no proxy for browserhax (which should resolve that weird error code we kept getting): https://github.com/hacks-guide/Guide_3DS/pull/2394

Thank me later

lilyuwuu commented 10 months ago

image

TheMasterOfMike commented 9 months ago

honestly I also agree with lifehackerhansol and lilyuwuu as well, with the reasonable solution methodology to laying everything out being:

Back when MSET9 was originally being discussed, I myself had brought up universally doing MSET9 for 11.4+, and while back then it was initially dismissed only because of the platform compatibility issue (and also because it was new I guess but like whatever) but thinking about it more since then, SSLoth and safecerthax are overall easier exploits/paths for an average person to use than MSET9, so why not keep them in

("But then what about super-skaterhax?" super-skaterhax isn't all that reliable so like dropping that still makes sense)

mirrormirrorontheweb commented 9 months ago

super-skaterhax isn't all that reliable so like dropping that still makes sense

how is it not reliable?

lifehackerhansol commented 9 months ago

super-skaterhax isn't all that reliable so like dropping that still makes sense how is it not reliable?

It is a rather unstable exploit. Lots of "don't touch anything pLEase" and some weird config causes it to crash. Hard to explain exactly, but you see it fairly often on Discord.

(Not that MSET9 is that much better in that regard, but that seems to have a higher degree of success whereas skater in some cases never works for someone.)

SirGamers commented 9 months ago

I disagree with removing the alt exploits cuz if MSET9 doesn't work and you can't do Soundhax, SSloth, or safecerthax, what are you supposed to do? everything else is fine imo

Gruetzig commented 9 months ago

the methods dont stop working when theyre not on 3ds.hacks.guide. We've recommended alternate exploits on the support discord before that page existed and theres nothing stopping us from doing so in the future. So I think its enough of an edge case to not need it on the main guide. Theres the wiki with a lot of exploits that aren't/weren't/probably won't be on the main guide in the future.

SirGamers commented 9 months ago

the methods dont stop working when theyre not on 3ds.hacks.guide. We've recommended alternate exploits on the support discord before that page existed and theres nothing stopping us from doing so in the future. So I think its enough of an edge case to not need it on the main guide. Theres the wiki with a lot of exploits that aren't/weren't/probably won't be on the main guide in the future.

ok then why keep kartdlphax? kartminer7 might be a better choice cuz not many people have friends that have/extra 3ds around that are hacked plus mk7 is included with most 3ds

irowiki commented 9 months ago

as stated in guide discussion i think we should keep the skaterhax page (but not necessarily route it) since it is still usable (keep in mind on NH we mostly see the unsuccessful cases, there are probably a lot of cases where skaterhax works just fine and we just cannot reproduce it for whatever reason)

everything LGTM but i think we should hold off until we have the android/chromeOS page ready, since i don't think mset9 should replace everything until we get to that point

Since multiple choice never works, I feel like routing n3ds to Skater first and then if it fails, have a quick troubleshooting outline (like .skater) for them to check, and if it still doesn't work, route them to mset9.

This takes care of presumably most people just sailing through skater anyway.

lilyuwuu commented 9 months ago

Kinda same, honestly. The main thing stopping me is that routing people to other methods when the current method doesn't work isn't really ideal, so it comes down to basically how reliable we think skater is (like, we don't really know for sure how many people do skater and then have no problems)

irowiki commented 9 months ago

routing people to other methods when the current method doesn't work isn't really ideal

Yeah I was actually editing my post when I saw your reply. Making people possibly waste time with one exploit when they could have done another in roughly the same amount of time is definitely not ideal.

so it comes down to basically how reliable we think skater is (like, we don't really know for sure how many people do skater and then have no problems)

Did google analytics get fixed to the point we could track how many people land on skater and then continue onto finalizing?

I think MSET9 is more reliable than Skater, besides the people needing to do a fresh install (Danny has been talking about changing the script to make a fresh install done by default). Perhaps route it in such a way that MSET9 is default for N3DS but if you have an iDevice or just can't use python, suggest Skater as an alternate exploit

lilyuwuu commented 9 months ago

Ok I just looked through guide analytics, and here's what it's looking like.

Comparing these statistics to the methods we consider to be more 'reliable', SSLoth-Browser and Soundhax:

Note that these numbers DO NOT take into account people who get help on NH, which will likely be counted in some cases as a separate visit session (as in, this is purely people who got on the home page and followed the normal guide structure).

In summary: Method Initial Success Troubleshooting Successful Troubleshooting Total Successful
MSET9 31% 14% 52% 38%
super-skaterhax 39% 13% 42% 45%
SSLoth-Browser 36% 17% 50% 44%
Soundhax 42% 7% 50% 45%

Therefore we should definitely keep super-skaterhax. (Success rates for MSET9 likely impeded by lack of command line access / command line being scary / lack of access to a computer, though - things that should be resolved with #2402).

TheMasterOfMike commented 9 months ago

What would the plan be for N3DS 11.14/11.15 then?

They can't do super-skaterhax without updating, so what would be the better approach here:

lifehackerhansol commented 9 months ago

What would the plan be for N3DS 11.14/11.15 then?

They can't do super-skaterhax without updating, so what would be the better approach here:

  • just do MSET9 automatically
  • have people update, then do super-skaterhax

MSET9

lilyuwuu commented 9 months ago

maybe for mset9 we should have a landing page at the beginning and have people select their computer type lol

i feel like the orange message box might not be visible enough

TheMasterOfMike commented 9 months ago

maybe for mset9 we should have a landing page at the beginning and have people select their computer type lol

i feel like the orange message box might not be visible enough

that would probably be the best approach if there’s a desire to add the Android app and whatever as well and I just noticed your PR