Order Top Players by their rating instead of lower bound of their rating

[TaleOfFriendship]

Hello,

love your site. Have some possible input:

The Top players are ordered by the lower bound of the rating with regard to uncertainty. For example Rank 9 vs rank 10 in this picture:

Rank 9 is higher ranked with a rating of 2241 than rank 10, who has a rating of 2257.

I imagine this is intentional, but for me ordering it like this is not very intuitive and I would order the rating by the expected number, i.e. rank 10 should be above rank 9. What do you think?

[halvnykterist]

You're right that this is intentional. Initially this was based off of the thought that bounds would be wider but now that people mostly are in the same range it might be worth changing.

There's also the "feel-good" aspect if your rank going up as your deviation goes down, but I don't know how much I care about that anyway.

[TaleOfFriendship]

I agree that the current approach has some advantages, especially to avoid having very high variance ratings show up at the top. Since you limit the top ranks to 150 variance I think that is not too much of an issue.

At the moment the list is ordered by an "invisible" column that is not shown in the list (Expected value - variance) instead of a visible one, which is unorthodox for a Top list, so I think an alternative solution is a new column with lower bound so people can see why the list is ordered this way. For me personally, I use your site often and mainly care about the expected value so I would still order by that.

[ghost]

@halvnykterist Is this pending implementation+PR or is this pending a decision on whether or not to move forward?

[halvnykterist]

@halvnykterist Is this pending implementation+PR or is this pending a decision on whether or not to move forward?

Pending decision, the actual implementation is trivial (just swapping ORDER BY value - 2 * deviation DESC for ORDER BY value DESC in the ranking query).

I'll try and remember today to export two versions of the top 100 with and without this to see if it changes anything significantly. I think my primary concern is that you'd get a lot more "jitter" with lower game count players entering the leaderboards with unstable ratings.

[halvnykterist]

Big tables incoming

Current ranking algorithm:

Rank	Name	Character	Rating	Games
1	June 10th	Happy Chaos	2306 ±85	4935 (70%)
2	June 10th	Happy Chaos	2305 ±91	4204 (78%)
3	NBNHMR	Nagoriyuki	2270 ±78	9255 (86%)
4	Darkrai	Goldlewis	2259 ±73	11698 (91%)
5	NASR | Latif	Zato-1	2293 ±110	6823 (82%)
6	UMVC3 Player	Happy Chaos	2262 ±83	8338 (86%)
7	June 10th	May	2222 ±98	1759 (59%)
8	tatuFa	Sol	2188 ±69	3624 (76%)
9	ONi DarkNecro	Nagoriyuki	2221 ±104	3309 (88%)
10	June 10th	Ramlethal	2173 ±57	3064 (70%)
11	PaiDosLeiteiros	Goldlewis	2165 ±52	8399 (85%)
12	Verix777	Nagoriyuki	2192 ±80	5024 (73%)
13	Hybrid	Sol	2257 ±145	939 (81%)
14	竹原	Ramlethal	2204 ±92	574 (64%)
15	GG PLAYER	Zato-1	2192 ±88	3113 (91%)
16	Tim119	Giovanna	2180 ±82	3093 (82%)
17	june 10th	Leo	2212 ±117	274 (75%)
18	ZENO ZENO ZENO Z	Happy Chaos	2169 ±76	2770 (75%)
19	June 10th	Happy Chaos	2175 ±88	3347 (83%)
20	June 10th	Leo	2174 ±88	513 (83%)
21	†キリトloveアスナ†	Potemkin	2145 ±64	1655 (88%)
22	Daru_I-No	I-No	2178 ±99	2705 (83%)
23	Lament	May	2149 ±70	6185 (78%)
24	Solar	Axl	2185 ±109	3174 (80%)
25	Acnologio	Giovanna	2138 ±65	6338 (63%)
26	下水	Leo	2186 ±116	3026 (89%)
27	ZIN	Chipp	2130 ±64	4633 (77%)
28	JSP FANBOY	Leo	2153 ±89	2190 (66%)
29	June 10th	Happy Chaos	2197 ±134	1423 (81%)
30	妹好きPlayer	Happy Chaos	2140 ±80	4515 (77%)
31	June 10th	Chipp	2197 ±143	1691 (85%)
32	Elo Eddie	Zato-1	2138 ±88	368 (60%)
33	kouhide	Giovanna	2118 ±69	8914 (84%)
34	Snake Eyez	Potemkin	2114 ±65	5710 (86%)
35	KantoKinte	Sol	2161 ±114	1729 (74%)
36	June 10th	Chipp	2187 ±143	780 (85%)
37	Rat	Millia	2149 ±105	3938 (70%)
38	Romolla	Sol	2179 ±138	100 (75%)
39	June 10th	Chipp	2173 ±134	1324 (88%)
40	Zippy	Ky	2115 ±77	3581 (76%)
41	Solstice	Ramlethal	2169 ±131	1054 (87%)
42	Budfelic	Nagoriyuki	2100 ±63	3749 (81%)
43	KantoKinte	Axl	2112 ±75	1686 (74%)
44	RemiCeleste	Axl	2181 ±145	683 (77%)
45	June 10th	Chipp	2151 ±118	1295 (85%)
46	Kreeg	Happy Chaos	2097 ±64	2962 (77%)
47	WAIT IS EU FREE	Happy Chaos	2162 ±130	2077 (84%)
48	김락봉	Ramlethal	2144 ±112	1995 (77%)
49	SQ	Ramlethal	2128 ±97	2373 (82%)
50	Fame96	Nagoriyuki	2156 ±125	232 (65%)
51	sanakan	Happy Chaos	2118 ±88	2689 (84%)
52	Bean	Chipp	2133 ±103	1035 (79%)
53	June 10th	Chipp	2164 ±136	1899 (84%)
54	Tee	Chipp	2108 ±80	2730 (83%)
55	Kwiddo	Ramlethal	2136 ±109	3734 (74%)
56	Falkor	May	2115 ±88	5207 (67%)
57	June 10th	Chipp	2146 ±120	427 (89%)
58	UMVC3 Player	Leo	2102 ±79	356 (79%)
59	Moist | Hotashi	Nagoriyuki	2120 ±98	4473 (79%)
60	Arrow	Potemkin	2112 ±91	6813 (84%)
61	ティーワイ	Giovanna	2160 ±140	1121 (87%)
62	forgotten frank	Ramlethal	2111 ±92	2482 (79%)
63	tkrnsan	Axl	2115 ±97	3014 (81%)
64	June 10th	Chipp	2124 ±106	912 (85%)
65	JSP FANBOY	Axl	2124 ±110	492 (66%)
66	June 10th	Chipp	2106 ±94	1040 (80%)
67	Zimpery	Faust	2068 ±58	10611 (80%)
68	Alter	Sol	2121 ±112	923 (87%)
69	Hazard	Chipp	2123 ±116	3352 (49%)
70	Dunktrain23.ttv	Nagoriyuki	2074 ±71	8212 (82%)
71	TestYourLuck	Nagoriyuki	2109 ±108	3388 (82%)
72	MORBIUSFAN53	Happy Chaos	2075 ±77	473 (56%)
73	ごーやーまん	I-No	2080 ±83	8567 (83%)
74	ベアラス	Millia	2071 ±75	817 (82%)
75	FGCMachoPC	Zato-1	2092 ±97	1151 (85%)
76	Bean	Leo	2143 ±147	999 (80%)
77	Washed Willy	Zato-1	2085 ±90	5609 (69%)
78	Bex_jp	Sol	2063 ±69	5344 (81%)
79	wiggins#1fanNA	Ky	2094 ±102	2874 (78%)
80	YWNBAW	Ky	2080 ±90	2327 (85%)
81	GG Player	Axl	2119 ±131	2485 (79%)
82	name123	Zato-1	2056 ±68	6955 (74%)
83	BIG TONKA T	Sol	2070 ±84	989 (79%)
84	GenisGod	Ramlethal	2057 ±71	3016 (75%)
85	Kinuski	Baiken	2047 ±62	5057 (78%)
86	Togata	Zato-1	2077 ±94	2562 (71%)
87	doram	Ramlethal	2080 ±97	3268 (77%)
88	Pochi The Dog	Axl	2060 ±78	5572 (80%)
89	06/10 ur cooked	Sol	2066 ±84	2534 (80%)
90	SweetWind	Chipp	2050 ±70	6213 (80%)
91	キコノヨ	Happy Chaos	2069 ±89	4399 (63%)
92	Setchi	Zato-1	2097 ±119	1017 (76%)
93	まーりんぱ〇	Zato-1	2072 ±96	3596 (80%)
94	Armix	Ramlethal	2062 ±85	1178 (62%)
95	Zakotou	Ky	2041 ±65	2898 (79%)
96	ikushisu	Ramlethal	2069 ±95	3983 (76%)
97	BedlessSleeper	Goldlewis	2066 ±92	4660 (76%)
98	bela	May	2048 ±76	1671 (64%)
99	sanakan	Nagoriyuki	2114 ±142	1167 (84%)
100	SugoiBoi	Millia	2055 ±84	2270 (77%)

Ignoring deviation:

Rank	Name	Character	Rating	Games
1	June 10th	Happy Chaos	2306 ±85	4935 (70%)
2	June 10th	Happy Chaos	2305 ±91	4204 (78%)
3	NASR | Latif	Zato-1	2293 ±110	6823 (82%)
4	NBNHMR	Nagoriyuki	2270 ±78	9255 (86%)
5	UMVC3 Player	Happy Chaos	2262 ±83	8338 (86%)
6	Hybrid	Sol	2257 ±145	939 (81%)
7	Darkrai	Goldlewis	2257 ±73	11697 (91%)
8	June 10th	May	2222 ±98	1759 (59%)
9	ONi DarkNecro	Nagoriyuki	2221 ±104	3309 (88%)
10	june 10th	Leo	2212 ±117	274 (75%)
11	竹原	Ramlethal	2204 ±92	574 (64%)
12	June 10th	Chipp	2197 ±143	1691 (85%)
13	June 10th	Happy Chaos	2197 ±134	1423 (81%)
14	Verix777	Nagoriyuki	2192 ±80	5024 (73%)
15	GG PLAYER	Zato-1	2192 ±88	3113 (91%)
16	tatuma	Sol	2188 ±69	3624 (76%)
17	June 10th	Chipp	2187 ±143	780 (85%)
18	下水	Leo	2186 ±116	3026 (89%)
19	Solar	Axl	2185 ±109	3174 (80%)
20	RemiCeleste	Axl	2181 ±145	683 (77%)
21	Tim119	Giovanna	2180 ±82	3093 (82%)
22	Romolla	Sol	2179 ±138	100 (75%)
23	Daru_I-No	I-No	2178 ±99	2705 (83%)
24	June 10th	Happy Chaos	2175 ±88	3347 (83%)
25	June 10th	Leo	2174 ±88	513 (83%)
26	June 10th	Ramlethal	2173 ±57	3064 (70%)
27	June 10th	Chipp	2173 ±134	1324 (88%)
28	Solstice	Ramlethal	2169 ±131	1054 (87%)
29	ZENO ZENO ZENO Z	Happy Chaos	2169 ±76	2770 (75%)
30	PaiDosLeiteiros	Goldlewis	2165 ±52	8399 (85%)
31	June 10th	Chipp	2164 ±136	1899 (84%)
32	WAIT IS EU FREE	Happy Chaos	2162 ±130	2077 (84%)
33	KantoKinte	Sol	2161 ±114	1729 (74%)
34	ティーワイ	Giovanna	2160 ±140	1121 (87%)
35	Fame96	Nagoriyuki	2156 ±125	232 (65%)
36	JSP FANBOY	Leo	2153 ±89	2190 (66%)
37	June 10th	Chipp	2151 ±118	1295 (85%)
38	Rat	Millia	2149 ±105	3938 (70%)
39	Lament	May	2149 ±70	6185 (78%)
40	June 10th	Chipp	2146 ±120	427 (89%)
41	†キリトloveアスナ†	Potemkin	2145 ±64	1655 (88%)
42	김락봉	Ramlethal	2144 ±112	1995 (77%)
43	Bean	Leo	2143 ±147	999 (80%)
44	妹好きPlayer	Happy Chaos	2140 ±80	4515 (77%)
45	Elo Eddie	Zato-1	2138 ±88	368 (60%)
46	Acnologio	Giovanna	2138 ±65	6338 (63%)
47	Kwiddo	Ramlethal	2136 ±109	3734 (74%)
48	Bean	Chipp	2133 ±103	1035 (79%)
49	ZIN	Chipp	2130 ±64	4633 (77%)
50	SQ	Ramlethal	2128 ±97	2373 (82%)
51	June 10th	Chipp	2124 ±106	912 (85%)
52	JSP FANBOY	Axl	2124 ±110	492 (66%)
53	Hazard	Chipp	2123 ±116	3352 (49%)
54	Alter	Sol	2121 ±112	923 (87%)
55	Moist | Hotashi	Nagoriyuki	2120 ±98	4473 (79%)
56	GG Player	Axl	2119 ±131	2485 (79%)
57	kouhide	Giovanna	2118 ±69	8914 (84%)
58	sanakan	Happy Chaos	2118 ±88	2689 (84%)
59	Zippy	Ky	2115 ±77	3581 (76%)
60	tkrnsan	Axl	2115 ±97	3014 (81%)
61	Falkor	May	2115 ±88	5207 (67%)
62	sanakan	Nagoriyuki	2114 ±142	1167 (84%)
63	Snake Eyez	Potemkin	2114 ±65	5710 (86%)
64	KantoKinte	Axl	2112 ±75	1686 (74%)
65	Arrow	Potemkin	2112 ±91	6813 (84%)
66	forgotten frank	Ramlethal	2111 ±92	2482 (79%)
67	TestYourLuck	Nagoriyuki	2109 ±108	3388 (82%)
68	Tee	Chipp	2108 ±80	2730 (83%)
69	Nerf | 9m Shine	Potemkin	2108 ±139	1159 (86%)
70	June 10th	Chipp	2106 ±94	1040 (80%)
71	UMVC3 Player	Leo	2102 ±79	356 (79%)
72	れれ	Sol	2102 ±138	5496 (77%)
73	Budfelic	Nagoriyuki	2100 ±63	3749 (81%)
74	ttv Diaphone_	I-No	2098 ±135	444 (82%)
75	Kreeg	Happy Chaos	2097 ±64	2962 (77%)
76	Setchi	Zato-1	2097 ±119	1017 (76%)
77	wiggins#1fanNA	Ky	2094 ±102	2874 (78%)
78	STE|ジロー	Anji	2093 ±148	547 (80%)
79	FGCMachoPC	Zato-1	2092 ±97	1151 (85%)
80	early_type	Chipp	2088 ±147	140 (81%)
81	Washed Willy	Zato-1	2085 ±90	5609 (69%)
82	AsuraSwagDaddy	Sol	2083 ±142	927 (74%)
83	ごーやーまん	I-No	2080 ±83	8567 (83%)
84	YWNBAW	Ky	2080 ±90	2327 (85%)
85	doram	Ramlethal	2080 ±97	3268 (77%)
86	brkrdv	Giovanna	2079 ±114	1406 (73%)
87	Togata	Zato-1	2077 ±94	2562 (71%)
88	FG | Marvelo	Chipp	2077 ±109	360 (78%)
89	MORBIUSFAN53	Happy Chaos	2075 ±77	473 (56%)
90	Dunktrain23.ttv	Nagoriyuki	2074 ±71	8212 (82%)
91	BarfyCrayon	Giovanna	2073 ±117	7326 (74%)
92	まーりんぱ〇	Zato-1	2072 ±96	3596 (80%)
93	VilkaShekotki	Chipp	2071 ±149	1866 (77%)
94	ベアラス	Millia	2071 ±75	817 (82%)
95	ベアラス	Baiken	2071 ±102	528 (81%)
96	BIG TONKA T	Sol	2070 ±84	989 (79%)
97	ikushisu	Ramlethal	2069 ±95	3983 (76%)
98	キコノヨ	Happy Chaos	2069 ±89	4399 (63%)
99	June 10th	Baiken	2068 ±113	1067 (67%)
100	Zimpery	Faust	2068 ±58	10611 (80%)

Overall there doesn't seem to be that much of a difference, most of the high deviation names I looked at in the raw ranked version were top 200 normally anyway. I'd be happy to see someone else take a look and point out any unfairness I've missed.

[ghost]

Not OP, but I'm on the same page as you. I wanted to offer knocking this out if this was just needing a quick PR, but it sounds like it can be closed.

[halvnykterist]

Yep, I implemented it a few days ago but must have forgotten to close the issue. Really didn't change too much but made the main page easier to follow. Will close it now.